For The Love Of Port

I was speaking to a whisky-enthusiast at a recent port tasting who said a common trick to extend the life of an open bottle of good whisky was to use glass pebbles/marbles to minimise air contact.

Is this something anyone has tried with port? Is it a well-known preservation technique that i have managed to overlook all this time? I can imagine it working particularly well with tawnies.

I have always thought that Whisky was very stable and more or less unaffected by air contact. Is that not the case?

I have heard/read of glass beads being used to raise the level in a bottle of wine that is being re-corked but have never seen it.

I've also heard of using such beads (usually stainless steel) for cleaning out decanters.

Roy Hersh wrote:I've also heard of using such beads (usually stainless steel) for cleaning out decanters.

I have some of these (the Riedel ones) - they are different i think.

The glass pebbles/marbles are bigger, the idea being that you put sufficient in a bottle that has been half-drunk in order to raise the level of port back up into the neck and thereby minimise air contact when you re-cork and put it back in the cellar/fridge.

I suppose this is similar in some respects to the theory behind the vacuvin in that it removes the oxygen from the bottle (but by not leaving space for it, rather than sucking it out).

Derek T. wrote:I have always thought that Whisky was very stable and more or less unaffected by air contact. Is that not the case?

Not being a whisky drinker, i would not know from first hand experience, but was told that this was an option where you were opening a very special bottle to drink half, but wanted to preserve the other half for a longer period (eg 6+ months). Where more than half the bottle remains, and/or it will be drunk over a shorter timeframe (eg: 3 or 4 months), i think there is less concern.

Derek T. wrote:
I have heard/read of glass beads being used to raise the level in a bottle of wine that is being re-corked but have never seen it.

I too have heard of the same, but also never actually seen it.

A far better way would be to use an inert gas such as Argon to displace the air in the bottle.

Why would that be far better? Apart from anything else, I thought there was some debate about whether nitrogen/argon systems had a negative effect on the wine.

For example:

[url=http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9055&p=52658&hilit=argon#p52870]here[/url] Roy Hersh wrote: I have seen some nitrogen systems used in restaurants effectively. However, maybe due to a very sensitive nose, I can definitely notice a "dumbing down" of aromatics especially, but flavors too ... when I have used Private Reserve w/ a can my brother bought for me. Yes, it prevented some oxidation, no question ... but it lost freshness in both crucial categories and I've tried it not only on Ports but Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, CA Cabs, German Rieslings and even Sauternes leftovers. Tossed it and never bought a refill.

[url=http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9055&p=52658&hilit=argon#p52879]here[/url] Andy Velebil wrote:I've used a can "wine preserver" in the past and I stopped several years ago because I kept getting funky odors when i'd uncork the wine for another glass after using the gas. I don't recall what the gas was, I don't think it was argon, but I have never used one since. I'm sure it depends on how sensitive people's noses are, and mine can be quite sensitive to off aromas. So for me I'd rather just toss the bottle in the fridge, or on rare occasions I've frozen left over wine.

My thinking was that clean glass should be genuinely inert, reusable, and that it wouldn't be too much hassle to add a few extra marbles every time that you have a glass in order to keep the level high

I have heard/read of glass beads being used to raise the level in a bottle of wine that is being re-corked but have never seen it.

I have tried it, and have a handful of bottles thus attended to (I also have a large quantity of 10mm dia. plain glass marbles, bought for the purpose)

However, I have rather gone off the idea. The process itself is a bit involved, as one needs to sterilize the marbles before inserting them; and the bottles rattle in a rather un-reassuring way after the event. If a bottle needs re-corking now, I leave the level as it is - but if it's also ullaged, it gets drunk..!

Tom

PS - Anyone want any small plain marbles??

Tom Archer wrote: However, I have rather gone off the idea. The process itself is a bit involved, as one needs to sterilize the marbles before inserting them;

why would you need to sterilise your marbles? Do you sterilise your decanters prior to use...?

I'll take you up on the offer for some clear marbles, if that's possible, and experiment with some 10YO tawny.

I can see the advantage over an inert gas or vacuum. If you leave a space or use inert gas, there will be evaporation from the liquid that remains into the space. Even if there is inert gas, I believe the law of partial pressures applies. The net result is that you may lose something from the wine. I think this is better than oxidizing, but the pebbles/marbles thing might be better.

Why sterilize? I don't sterilize a decanter because I'm going to drink that right up. I probably wouldn't sterilize the marbles either, but the argument would be that they will be in contact with the liquid for a longer time, giving a spoilage organism time to act. Then again, Port is 20% alcohol, so the odds of something spoiling it are pretty low. (Side note: Sterilizing would be pretty easy if you had a keg of StarSan at the ready as some brewers might.)

I've never used argon, manly due to costs and being hard to get in small containers. But that is generally what most wine makers here in Cali use to sparge the bottles prior to filling with wine on the bottling line. The disposable small can's are typically nitrogen based and I've not been a fan of the ones I've tried in the past.

Given my druthers and empirical evidence, I have still not found anything that is as good as immediately pouring a just opened 750 into two 375's and keeping one for immediate drinking and the other recorked with little to no head space between the Port and cork and then stored in the refrigerator. There's no question that the 40 degrees F. will slow down the oxidation and extended shelf life can be achieved for most types of Port. When it comes time to drink the half bottle, rethermalize at room temperature and allow it to further open up in the glass.

I would not do this entire process with anything older than the 1970's though. Your mileage may vary.

Can one freeze port? WLDG folks seem to do this to some reds!

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:Can one freeze port? WLDG folks seem to do this to some reds!

I've never frozen Port, I have frozen regular dry wine to save it for later. The only thing I really noticed was a reduction in acidity levels, leaving the wine a bit flat. I've stopped freezing and started drinking more....problem solved

I've stopped freezing and started drinking more....problem solved

Why fuss around trying to preserve part of a bottle? I just finish one and start the next..

There oughta be a law!

Just pour half the bottle into a 375 without filtering right up to the cork and save. Will loose some freshness, but is a good balance considering the other options out there.

So here's the dirt from a whiskey guy. I know a LOT of enthusiasts who open a bottle and have it around for years, and claim the taste never changes over that time. It depends on your palate. To me, that bottle will start to taste different, and not in a good way, after a few weeks to a month. A whiskey will open up and improve for a little while from the air contact, then it will degrade. I leave a bottle alone for a week or two as I drink a little from it, and then I start topping it off with Wine Preserve spray after every pour. This keeps the whiskey 'fresh' for many weeks. I am also a huge proponent of decanting half into a 375 to be put away for (much) later, and also decanting into progressively smaller bottles as you drink down a bottle to minimize air contact.

Agree with you Mike, if your palate is somewhat trained, then you should be able to determine the difference in a bottle that's been around for months or a year or more and a fresh bottle. With Port I note those changes often. I even can see this in older Ports too, but especially the young ones over the first three to four days they're open.