Causing a Furher over Hitler wine

[Roy Hersh]

Wow, this is something completely different!

http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2012/0 ... e-dropped/

[Andy Velebil]

WOW, I'm left speechless

[Eric Ifune]

Is he just trying to make a buck? Or is there something more insidious going on?

[Ray Barnes]

This is reminiscent of Winston Churchill's words, "the price of freedom is a lot of rubbish."

While there are many well documented atrocities associated with the Third Reich, one of them which rarely gets mentioned is the misappropriation of the noble swastika. I want to be very clear that I am not a Nazi sympathizer in any way - in fact my maternal grandfather, of Jewish origin, was likely a Holocaust victim. But prior to WWII the swastika had a distinguished history.

[Eric Ifune]

In Asian cultures, the swaztika has religious overtones. I've some antique good luck amulets with it; however, the Nazi regime was so heinous, it's not culturally acceptable anymore.

[Andy Velebil]

It's very sad those symbols are now forever associated with the atrocities during WWII.

[Ray Barnes]

Indeed, in much the same way as, for all intents and purposes, one can no longer use the word gay in a non-sexual manner.

My opinion remains that the wine labels constitute a significant, and reprehensible, aberration of freedom of thought and expression.

[Derek T.]

Whilst it is perfectly acceptable to discuss the right and wrongs of the use of the swastika in a modern-day multicultural society, the use of that monster's face on any commercial product is repugnant in the extreme.

Unfortunately, the human race includes a significant proportion of members who cannot understand how wrong this is. That is nothing to do with people being evil, it is simply a function of what we are. We started off as gloop, evolved into animals and then, some of us, evolved into people capable of intelligent thought and reasoning. Others remain closer to gloop. One of them made these labels.

[Ray Barnes]

Your response takes the position that Darwin's theory of evolution was correct. I don't think the forum owner would encourage the use of this site for debating that position.

On a lighter note:
http://www.hot4tshirts.com/mens-tebowlu ... g-t-shirt/

[Derek T.]

Feel free to challenge Darwin, here or anywhere else. Like all scientists, he is only right until proven wrong

[Ray Barnes]

I am absolutely not going to debate whether or not to have a debate with you.

[Glenn E.]

I think we should debate whether or not it is appropriate to have a debate about debates.

[Ray Barnes]

That's an excellent idea. Truth be told, I did consider both sides of the argument before my last post.

[Andy Velebil]

We started off as gloop, evolved into animals and then, some of us, evolved into people capable of intelligent thought and reasoning. Others remain closer to gloop. One of them made these labels.

Actually some of us haven't fully evolved yet...


That is not debatable as a picture never lies, unless you care to debate that.

[Ray Barnes]

brilliant!

[Moses Botbol]

I have had 2 Rieslings from the Nazi era with Swastikas and German eagles. I wish I had taken a picture. The bottles held up well.

[Roy Hersh]

What Derek said. +!

Ray, feel free to debate Darwin anytime.

[Ray Barnes]

My personal convictions on the whole creation vs. evolution debate are so unorthodox that they are likely to offend forum members on both sides of the mainstream positions. For that reason, I prefer to keep these convictions private. Sometimes in life, the less said, the better. I appreciate the invitation, though.

[Ray Barnes]

PS - the creation vs. evolution debate, in the eyes of most people, takes the underlying assumption that one of the two mainstream perspectives is correct. This is where I run into serious difficulty, because of disagreement with the underlying assumptions behind each of the perspectives.

[Derek T.]

Ray,

You now have me intrigued.

I must confess that I have never heard of a third option. I was raised as a Catholic and therefore my early years were filled with notions of "Creation". My biggest problem with all of that is that I have never believed in a god or any form of "higher being", so the creation theory never worked for me.

Evolution is something I have always thought at least feasible.

I appreciate your reluctance to offend, but you have created an itch that I feel the need to scratch. Are you able to point me to somewhere on the web where I can find out more about your "unorthodox convictions"?

Derek