For The Love Of Port

My name is Peter and I have been following the madeira forum for a while but this is my first post. I am a wine producer in Argentina, a MW student, and a lover of madeira. I wanted to ask everybody about their experiences with TCA and madeira. I have had a good deal of madeira but have only encountered one corked bottle. I know that ETS in St. Helena, CA says that high alcohol can mask TCA. I also remember reading that oxidative-style wines make TCA aromas less perceptible. Can anybody tell me about their experiences with corked bottles of madeira?

I think I had two "corked" bottles so far and when I count this against all the "corked" ones I had with French reds and others, with Madeiras it seems to be a very rare event. You are right, high alcohol can mask TCA and the oxidative flavours can do the same. Still it seems to be a rare thing, from my limited experience.

Peter

I've never had a "corked" Madeira. I think it odd because of the poor quality corks that are traditionally used. I'm going to guess, as per Peter, that the oxidative style has something to do with it.

I am adding a recent bottle of D´Oliveiras 1969 Sercial to the TCA list- subtle but there. It had light, typical mustiness plus noticeably muted fruit. I did not try polyethylene. Has anybody done that with madeira?

I've only had one bottle of TCA in Madeira, but I haven't drank 100's bottles of Madeira either...

I've only had two as well. It is very rare. I asked Ricardo Freitas of Barbeito and he told me he had only one experience with corked Madeira. It is quite odd to find but unmistakeable when it appears.

I am struggling to find a plausible explanation why there would be fewer bottles of madeira with TCA than other wines. As Eric points out, shippers have not traditionally blown the budget on high-quality corks. I think that there are probably just a many bottles of madeira with TCA as a percentage but that we do not perceive it due to higher alcohol and the oxidative style. This raises an interesting question about our appreciation of madeira- even though we seldom register the mustiness associated with certain levels of TCA, does the chemical at lower levels have effects on madeiras such as on red wines (e.g., muted fruit) that we are not perceiving?

Do the port drinkers out there find similarly small numbers of TCA bottles? Less with the tawny (oxidative) styles?

I wouldn't say my experience with ports has showed a lower incidence of being corked. It runs about the same as the table wines I drink, though with both there are certain "repeat offenders" that people generally point to as having a lions share of issues.

I'm curious if the T-stopper corks are constructed in a similar way to the agglomerate corks that are common in lower end champagnes, as I know the binder/glue they use on those corks seems to inhibit the bacterial growth that causes TCA. Is it possible that they use a similar substance when constructing a T-stopper?

Peter T. wrote:I am struggling to find a plausible explanation why there would be fewer bottles of madeira with TCA than other wines. As Eric points out, shippers have not traditionally blown the budget on high-quality corks. I think that there are probably just a many bottles of madeira with TCA as a percentage but that we do not perceive it due to higher alcohol and the oxidative style. This raises an interesting question about our appreciation of madeira- even though we seldom register the mustiness associated with certain levels of TCA, does the chemical at lower levels have effects on madeiras such as on red wines (e.g., muted fruit) that we are not perceiving?

Do the port drinkers out there find similarly small numbers of TCA bottles? Less with the tawny (oxidative) styles?

Peter, the rate seems about the same in my experience. I agree with your point that the alcohol, dry extract and oxidative style of some Ports may occasionally mask TCA better than other wines, especially at low levels of contamination and for drinkers who aren't particularly sensitive to TCA to begin with -- I wish I was one of them!

I find plenty of TCA infected bottles of Port over the course of a year. Maybe a bit more in VP than wood-aged Tawny/Colheitas but even with those and T-corks, I have found them too. I wish that was not the case. I really do!