question about storing old VP

[Monique Heinemans.]

Yesterday I had an "interesting" conversation by mail with an associate from a large wine and port shop in Belgium. They both sell and buy wine and port.
I was asking him about the 1997 Niepoort VP they offer, the provenance, storing, and the possible signs of seepage. He stated to me that there was no seepage, this wasn't even possible because they always stored their older bottles VP straight up, not lying down...
I've bought several cases of VP there in the past (Fonseca 2000, Graham 2000 and Vesuvio 1997). The OWB's were all opened, so the bottles might have been standing up a while. Now I was asking myself how long a bottle probably could stand up (after having laying down for several years I hope) without the cork beïng dried out?

[Moses Botbol]

Depends on the relative humdity of their cellar. Personally, I think it is possible to store port upright if the cellar conditions allow it, but not every cellar (including mine) has the RH year round to be assured the cork won't get dried out. I store my Madeira, Champagne, and Belgian beer upright in the coolest section of the cellar. If you have had luck with their older bottles store this way, then there you go!

[Al B.]

There used to be a school of thought that port was best stored upright - just as is still recommended to be done with Madeira.

I guess that the advantage is that there is less contact between the cork and the port, so less opportunity for TCA contamination, less reliance on the cork to keep the port in the bottle.

We speculated what that might mean to the development of the port - not lying the bottle down must mean that the cork is not kept damp and therefore it is likely to fit less tightly. This could mean that more air slowly enters the bottle through or past the cork and the wine oxidises more quickly than vintage port kept lying down - bottle matured colheita perhaps?

I do recall Sean C sharing a bottle with me some years ago which had been shipped and stored upright. This was one of the better Ferreira 1980s that I have had and certainly hadn't suffered from being upright all its life.

But if I was planning on buying a bottle and then lying it down again...I'd be happy to go 2-3 months, but would want to monitor the bottle closely for the next 3-4 months. If it was an old bottle, I'd worry more than for a 1997 vintage. Corks over 20-30 years of age become more fragile and therefore more vulnerable to failure if they are dried out and then re-soaked.

Why not buy one or two of the bottles and store them upright as an experiment?

[Moses Botbol]

I do recall Sean C sharing a bottle with me some years ago which had been shipped and stored upright. This was one of the better Ferreira 1980s that I have had and certainly hadn't suffered from being upright all its life.

I also have Ferreira 1980 from the same vendor and was stored upright. The cases from the store had black mold on the outside so I assume their cellar must've had some humidity. The bottles did vary, but at least the corks came out in one piece. I think I have about 3-4 bottles left from that case.

[Roy Hersh]

Interesting that Alex mentioned the 1980 Ferreira of Sean's. When we did our 1980 tasting a year or two ago, Sean brought a 1980 Ferreira and I really like that Port, might even say, usually love it. I am a big fan of the 1980 vintage in general. However, the bottle that Sean brought was very badly oxidized and was the lightest color of all, even compared to a Colheita that was brought. I never knew until now that he stored it standing up. So, now, it all makes more sense as I had never seen a 1980 Ferreira behave like that.

I don't buy the theory that standing up wine reduces the chance of TCA. The wine simply needs a very short amount of contact to be infected by TCA and somewhere along the line, from bottling line to end user winding up with the bottle it is going to happen, therefore I don't really understand storage of any wine standing up. I realize with Madeira it matters not if it winds up exposed to a small amount of oxygen in the headroom of the bottle, but that is likely the only exception to the rule, at least for me. I only have one bottle standing up in my cellar, a Madeira but that has more to do with not damaging the old frail 19th c. paper that surrounds it and the label from my wooden racking.

[Moses Botbol]

I am a big fan of the 1980 vintage in general. However, the bottle that Sean brought was very badly oxidized and was the lightest color of all, even compared to a Colheita that was brought. I never knew until now that he stored it standing up. So, now, it all makes more sense as I had never seen a 1980 Ferreira behave like that.

The first bottles we had from our cases we oxidized as you state and I was little disappointed until bottle number 2-3 came out and it was perfect. It's a crapshoot how if any oxidiation there will be with this vintage. The bottles were shipping standing up from Portugal and if you handled the case as marked, the bottles would've remained standing up as they have. Very odd to see the case marked as such and the only one I have seen (outside of LBV's) arked like this.

Would have to agree on your statement on TCA.

[Roy Hersh]

When the 1980 Ferreira is spot on, it really is a pretty sexy little number. Love that elegance and seemingly older quality, while still fresh as a daisy and supremely balanced.