New London auction season starts with a whimper..

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:24 am

The first catalogue of the new London auction season is with us - Sotheby's on Sept 20th (Christie's have a sale two days earlier, but don't have their catalogue on-line yet)

So what do we have amongst 740 lots...

..an awful lot of 'investment grade' Bordeaux..

and just ONE BOTTLE (not even a case!) of Port.

Lot 372 - allegedly N31, but they won't go further than describing it as 'believed'.

Deflated? Me???

Tom

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:35 am

Tom,

What have they quoted as a guide price for the bottle of "Perhaps might be if you're really lucky N31"?

Derek

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:10 am

£600 - £800.

I suspect the hammer will fall at around £900 or £950

Tom

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:29 am

What happens if you buy a "Believed Noval 1931" at auction and when you pull the cork it has another (lesser) shipper or vintage stamped on the cork?

Derek

Adam F · Post by **Adam F** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:41 am

you cry? I always assumed you'd bought it as 'believed' as a punt so its on your head.

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:21 am

Provided there is no evidence of deliberate fraud, it's your problem

Tom

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:00 pm

Is it the same story if you buy from a merchant rather than at auction?

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:39 pm

- It depends on how the merchant describes the product.

If he says that a product is definitely 'X', but it proves to be otherwise, then he can be called to account.

If he says 'probably' and can demonstrate good reason for describing it thus, he shouldn't be liable, but this is becoming a very grey area.

In my own trade of supplying fireworks to professional display operators, we have for many years offloaded serviceable, safe, but below spec. 'seconds' at bargain prices.

Our insurers are getting very unhappy about this, saying that if we sell anything as second grade product - even if the reason for it being second grade has nothing to with safety, and we explain why we rate it as second grade - it is almost impossible to fully delegate responsibility if the product misbehaves.

Caveat emptor was so much simpler...

Tom

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:49 am

Thanks, Tom

I agree that life was much simpler before you had to ask your insurer and/or lawyer every time want to follow a business oportunity that isn't quite on the mainstream. Perhaps this is all a result of the ever increasing influence of litigation in our once civilised world :?

Insurance or not, I'm not sure I fancy putting a match to a "second grade" firework

Derek

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:43 am

Derek Turnbull wrote:I'm not sure I fancy putting a match to a "second grade" firework

- I'm not sure I'd let you...

Tom

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:21 pm

An interesting case of buyer beware: At the Wine Club in San Francisco this weekend I saw some Fonseca 1977 of US $49/bottle. Clearly labeled as "buyer beware", and specifically stating that the wine was no longer optimal, but that the establishment still though there was value in it (at that price). The bottles actually looked very much like the rest of the (older) bottles in their port section, with high fills and no signs of seepage.

I did not get any, although I was tempted to try one to see what it was like (I have a single bottle in supposedly pristine condition in my basement). But it made me happy to shop there to know that if they knew there was something wrong they would clearly say so. It also made me nervous in general because the bottles looked fine, in fact very similar to many older bottles I have purchased in the past.

Makes me want to raise the percent premium I might pay for ex cellers bottles

Jay

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:11 pm

Why? What had happened to the bottles?

Tom

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:50 am

For $50.00 I would have grabbed one and tried it just to see if it was still in good condition.

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:47 pm

uncle tom wrote:Why? What had happened to the bottles?

I dont know. I went to pick up some 1999 Niepoort LBV, but was short on time, with an antsy daughter with me who is not a big fan of endless wandering in wine stores. I asked one employee but he did not know. I didn't have time to ask another before I had to leave.

Stuart Chatfield · Post by **Stuart Chatfield** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:04 am

I think port is increasingly "anniversary" led. There was a sudden rush of 66s and 31s for sale this year for those anniversaries, but the time for that has now passed. I suspect those that have bought for investment are holding back now. Thank heavens I'm top-heavy in 77s - a rare vintage that we appreciate but so does the popular concensus of casual buyers. They'll take off soon and hopefully the 66s will calm down.

However much port we few regulars drink, we can't comptere with the 000s of 40-year-olds who were bought our favourite vintage as a one-off present this year. The gradual erosion of old stocks by university colleges and London Clubs must have had a stabilising effect in the past. However, now they are not drinking it they are at least selling it to us. (I'm still enjoying my case of Taylor's '85, bought recently for a token sum, that was found floating in a cellar after the Cambridge floods of a few years ago!)

By the way, Farrs have some halves on Noval '31 at 675

Michael Kessler · Post by **Michael Kessler** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:24 am

Jay Powers wrote:An interesting case of buyer beware: At the Wine Club in San Francisco this weekend I saw some Fonseca 1977 of US $49/bottle. Clearly labeled as "buyer beware", and specifically stating that the wine was no longer optimal, but that the establishment still though there was value in it (at that price). The bottles actually looked very much like the rest of the (older) bottles in their port section, with high fills and no signs of seepage.

I did not get any, although I was tempted to try one to see what it was like (I have a single bottle in supposedly pristine condition in my basement). But it made me happy to shop there to know that if they knew there was something wrong they would clearly say so. It also made me nervous in general because the bottles looked fine, in fact very similar to many older bottles I have purchased in the past.

Makes me want to raise the percent premium I might pay for ex cellers bottles :shock:

Jay

I have had nothing but good luck with port values such as those above... case of '97 neiport with some stained capsule lables at $40/btl and the 2 so far have been outstanding, just picked up 6 pristene bottles of Warre's '94 for $48 a btl (supposed distributor close out), 1966 Croft, crummy looking bottles, mid shoulder fill $74 a bottle, just outstanding.

I guess the story could be different if we're talking 100's dollars for these bottles but for under $100, to me it's worth a try...I can remember with remores the $100-$200 a bottle burgundies I poured down the drain because of the tremensous bottle variation...I have yet to discard a port!

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:32 pm

I said:

I suspect the hammer will fall at around £900 or £950

I was wrong - it sold for just £650

I did a bit of research on the bottle - the bottler, Fearons, DID bottle N31, but only put their name on the capsule, and not the name of the wine - the description of the bottle was identical to other N31's of unquestioned provenance sold earlier this year.

It also had it's level in neck - which is exceptional for a 75yr old bottle - as did one of the other Fearons sold a few months ago.

- I even know who bought the bottle...

...it was me!

Tom

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:46 pm

Tom,

Congratulations on a stunning purchase. You managed to pick up the wine at less than 1/3rd of the current (ridiculous) retail price.

If and when you decide to open it, be sure to let us all know what it tastes like (or save us a sip.....)

On the other hand, if you want to organise an offline at a time of year that suits you and would like to choose a theme of "bring a stunning bottle", then I am sure I might be able to find something suitable.

Alex