Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

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Roy Hersh
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Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

Post by Roy Hersh »

Lots of information about the improvement in both viti and vini culture explains why today's Vintage Ports are so consistently good/sometimes better, even in the "not generally declared" years. That is pretty much a given. :scholar:

But when comparing the likes of 2000, 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2009, (to pick a random handful of fine vintages from the past decade) to the 1945/1948, 1963/1966/, 1970/1977 vintages ... we see greatness in those older vintages too. There were no robotics, lots of bottling was done in other countries after being shipped by boat in cask (through the mid-'70's); no thermal coils in/under lagares, hygienics were in a very different league, corks were handled quite differently, grapes took longer to reach the crush pads, casks riding the river down to Gaia took significantly longer than today's trucks and I can go on and on and on with all of the modernized techniques, equipment and information that the vineyard managers and winemakers have at their disposal today.

So looking at the recent old great vintages listed above ('48-'77) ... were the shippers just lucky ... or is the quality really that much better, (as we realize consistency nowadays, is undeniably better)?

As a side note, do you believe the best Vintage Ports from the last decade will eventually trump the greats from yesteryear (context note: when comparing them at their peak)?
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Eric Ifune
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Re: Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

Post by Eric Ifune »

I believe that there is much more knowledge these days in both viticulture and winemaking. There are more consistent results. No bad wines. Rubies and LBV's are better as a result today.
One could argue that winemaking was riskier in the past, i.e. with harvest dates, planting of varieties, sorting of fruit, ect.; but when they got it right, it was really special. I do believe that harvesting was earlier in the past (less risky for the growers), which yielded higher acid, lower chain tannins in the wine which necessitated long aging time to make the wine drinkable. I think this contributed to longevity. Wines and must oxidized more easily and were handled more roughly in the past. I wonder if that caused the wines to be more stable since the oxidized components then settled out before bottling? This is one argument over why White Burgundies are prone to premature oxidation these days.
Excellent question.
Eric Menchen
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Re: Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

Post by Eric Menchen »

Take a great vintage from the past, and great bottles of it, and use that as a benchmark. Considering modern production techniques, etc., I think a lot can be done to eliminate wines that were inferior to that benchmark. A lot of the downside can be prevented. As for doing better, there might be slight upside, but nowhere near as much as the downside difference. Better sanitation, better control of fermentation temperatures, better grading and treatment of corks will prevent poor quality bottles from being released. But if they had a combination of good weather, harvest time, careful bottling, etc. in the past, what can be done to improve on that?

Did they used to purge bottles with CO2 prior to filling? Do they do that today? That might prevent more oxidation, but this is a wine for which some oxidation is o.k., so I'm just going out on a limb here trying to think of something today that might make for better wines.
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Shawn Denkler
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Re: Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

Post by Shawn Denkler »

Eric Ifune wrote:Re: Quality improvement of VPs over the decades
by Eric Ifune » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:41 pm
I believe that there is much more knowledge these days in both viticulture and winemaking. There are more consistent results. No bad wines. Rubies and LBV's are better as a result today.One could argue that winemaking was riskier in the past, i.e. with harvest dates, planting of varieties, sorting of fruit, ect.; but when they got it right, it was really special. I do believe that harvesting was earlier in the past (less risky for the growers), which yielded higher acid, lower chain tannins in the wine which necessitated long aging time to make the wine drinkable. I think this contributed to longevity. Wines and must oxidized more easily and were handled more roughly in the past. I wonder if that caused the wines to be more stable since the oxidized components then settled out before bottling? This is one argument over why White Burgundies are prone to premature oxidation these days.Excellent question.
The improvements in winemaking should certainly lead to more consistent results as Eric pointed out. More great ports, not just a few great ones. But not better than the best of the past.

Since great wines are made in the vineyard the quality should be better in the future because of the advances in viticulture. The trend of planting just the top five varieties for red port should make a huge difference as the vines become old vines.

Eric also says that wines were picked earlier in the past which probably leads to great longevity for the reasons he mentions. Are the picking dates documented? This is the wild card in the quality issue. Picking earlier (as long as the grapes are ripe) can lead to longevity and I love old port. But the ports probably were not as good when young. Grapes picked riper generally leads to ports that are more enjoyable earlier at some sacrifice of longevity and bottle bouquet.
Shawn Denkler, "Portmaker" Quinta California Cellars
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Roy Hersh
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Re: Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

Post by Roy Hersh »

Moving forward, it will be interesting to see how the climate change and increasing temperatures play out in the Douro region; which is typically hotter than most other wine producing regions on earth.

I also think that viticulture is such a huge factor, and the advancements there are quite significant to say the least. Even the simple tracking and information available about rainfall, temperatures etc. will enable better reactions to the cards that Mother Nature deals.

From the vini side of the equation, when one realizes the importance of the improvement in quality of aguardente in the past fifteen years, that in and of itself will play a big part in greater Ports in the future.

Since robotics were developed and then implemented in the late 1990's, there has yet to be a technological development with such significant impact since that time. I hope that we all get to see the next great advancement during our lifetime.

For now, I am just looking forward to the 2011 Vintage Ports to come to fruition and then to the marketplacce in 2013. Beyond the jaded halls of FTLOP and TPF, I have an optimistic feeling that the energy surrounding the next great vintage release, hopefully coupled with a continued improvement in the global economy; will be a turning point for Port wine sales in general.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Paul Fountain
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Re: Quality improvement of VPs over the decades

Post by Paul Fountain »

I wonder whether the best vintages of the past decade will not be seen in the same light as the great vintages of the past, due to the quality gap between a great vintage and a not quite as good vintage being nowhere near as wide as it has been in the past
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