For The Love Of Port

I was wondering about the particular category or market niche this Ferreira brand belongs to .
As it is matured in pipes (average 7 years) and not in large wood vats , this is not a Premium Ruby or "Vintage Character" and does not compete directly with the likes of Cockburn's Special Reserve, Warre's Warrior and Graham's Six Grapes, if I'm not mistaken.
Although there's no mention of the word Tawny in the label, would this particular wine be a Premium Tawny perhaps? And which brands does it compete with in this category?
Thanks !

7 years meets the minimum requirement for a Colheita, but with no year I suspect you are correct and it is a tawny reserve.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Glenn E. wrote:7 years meets the minimum requirement for a Colheita, but with no year I suspect you are correct and it is a tawny reserve.

My understanding of the regulations was that "reserve" on its own officially denotes a "ruby" style of port (though clearly, at 7 years on average, this will be at the tawny end of the scale). In the context of tawny or white ports, the label would need to state "Tawny Reserve" or "White Reserve".

However, the official Sogrape spec sheet for Dona Antonia seems slightly schitzophrenic in that regard!

[Spec sheet doesn't appear to link - copy the following for the spec sheet:] http://eng.sograpevinhos.eu/marcas/Port ... eserve.pdf

From the data sheet:

"Porto Ferreira Dona Antónia Reserve is a premium reserve red Porto, created to celebrate the memory of the
charismatic lady - Dona Antónia Adelaide Ferreira - that in the 19th century led and inspired the company to gain
its future, confirming the values that would established it as leading quality winemakers and number one brand in
Portugal."

Which doesn't clarify much.
To me, Graham's The Tawny is competing in the same category although Dona Antonia does not state the word "TAWNY" in its label.

Agreed - my impression is that this is a port made to a certain style / flavour profile rather than worrying particularly about which IVDP category it fits into.

There's an interesting video of Bartholomew Broadbent tasting the wine blind here, where i think he sees it as sitting more in the "tawny" camp.

But, technically speaking, i don't think it's classified for IVDP purposes either as a tawny or reserve tawny. And is possibly of a fruitier / slightly different style to a reserve tawny (though it does appear to be aged in wood (650l barrels), rather than steel).

Thank you for your input and the Bartholomew Broadbent's video , Rob C.
Cheers!

Rob C. wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:7 years meets the minimum requirement for a Colheita, but with no year I suspect you are correct and it is a tawny reserve.

My understanding of the regulations was that "reserve" on its own officially denotes a "ruby" style of port (though clearly, at 7 years on average, this will be at the tawny end of the scale). In the context of tawny or white ports, the label would need to state "Tawny Reserve" or "White Reserve".

That doesn't jive with my experience. I have had several Ports simply labeled "Reserve" or "Grand Reserve" that were very obviously tawnies and could not possibly have been intended to be rubies. One had 60 years in cask. Theses were all older bottles though.

Rubies end at 6 years I think. (LBVs specifically.) Tawnies start at 7 years in cask and obviously go a lot further.

There have been differences at different times in history, but I think that's how things currently stand.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

The categories as described in the legislation - and in particular the words in bold below - are what lead me to believe this is not *technically* a reserve tawny (though the precise definition of the "Reserve" category itself is somewhat different from what i had thought (again due to words in bold), and accords well with the marketing description of the Dona Antonia as a port that is "meant to combine the intensity of a young ruby with the mellowness of a tawny"):

Portaria n.o 1484/2002 wrote: ....
c) Reserva Tawny ou Tawny Reserve e Reserva Branco ou White Reserve. — É o vinho de muito boa qualidade obtido por lotação de vinhos de grau de maturação variável que estagiou em madeira pelo menos sete anos, apresentando complexidade de aroma e sabor que lhe con- ferem características organolépticas específicas, devendo o rótulo obrigatoriamente conter a menção «Tawny» ou «Branco» (ou «White»);

d) Reserva ou Reserve. — É o vinho de muito boa qualidade obtido por lotação de vinhos de grau de maturação variável, apresentando comple- xidade de aroma e sabor que lhe conferem características organolépticas específicas, podendo utilizar cumulativamente a menção «Ruby» se se apresentar retinto ou tinto;

e) Especial ou Special e Finest. — São menções que poderão ser associadas às referidas nas ante- riores alíneas c) e d), mas apenas uma das men- ções desta alínea e) poderá figurar no rótulo;

Google translate wrote: ....
c) Tawny Reserve or Reserve Tawny and Reserve White or White Reserve. - The wine is of very good quality, obtained by blending wines of variable degree of maturation that matured in wood for at least seven years, presenting complexity of aroma and flavor that will hurt con-specific organoleptic characteristics, and the label must include the words' Tawny 'or' Branco '(or' white ');

d) Reserve or Reserve. - The wine is of very good quality, obtained by blending wines of variable degree of maturation, with complexity of aroma and flavor that give specific organoleptic characteristics, cumulatively may use the word 'Ruby' if present deep purple or red;

e) Special and Special and Finest. - Are indications that can be associated with ante-riores mentioned in c) and d), but only one of the men-tion of this point e) shall appear on the label;

(c) is more specific than (d). If you wish to have a category (c) Port, it must be at least 7 years old and must say that it is a tawny (or white) on the label. If not both, then it may only be category (d) with the further condition that it may be called ruby if it is purple or deep red. I'm not sure why anyone would want to produce a 7+ year old (c) Port but only label it as a (d), but it appears to be legal by these statutes.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Glenn E. wrote:(c) is more specific than (d). If you wish to have a category (c) Port, it must be at least 7 years old and must say that it is a tawny (or white) on the label. If not both, then it may only be category (d) with the further condition that it may be called ruby if it is purple or deep red. I'm not sure why anyone would want to produce a 7+ year old (c) Port but only label it as a (d), but it appears to be legal by these statutes.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I imagine they are intended to be distinct categories, albeit at the margins you can find ports that might have a claim to fit into either.

I think a "tawny reserve" has to be approved by IVDP as conforming to certain (presumably tawny?) characteristics (whereas basic tawnies, which can be as young as basic rubies, do not need to be approved).

I don't know whether a "reserve" category port, whether or not also labelled as a "ruby" reserve or "finest reserve", also has to be approved by IVDP. But presumably, if it does, it needs to show different characteristics to a reserve tawny (and i have a hazy recollection that, reflecting the "vintage character" category that it replaced, a "reserve" port needs to emulate one of a number of characteristics of vintage port - i.e. from young and powerful to more delicate and complex, but in each case keeping more of an emphasis on forward fruit than a tawny).

But i'm dredging up what i read a long time ago and not confident i'm on solid ground!

Just dipped into R. Maysons' new book - that has an interesting discussion on the reserve category (and what it does) and a specific mention of the Dona Antonia.

I must admit I've not read this entire thread but from memory, having had this years ago with Batholomew Broadbent on several occasions, (but a LONG time back when it was first being introduced) it was aged for an average of 8 years. IIRC, this was considered a Tawny. There is a Ruby Reserve and Tawny Reserve category and this would fit into the latter, however, the Port shows plenty of mixed messages because of the color and still some primary ruby flavors too.

By email response from Sogrape

The Dona Antonia Reserve ages in wood for a minimum of 7 years and is approved by IVDP as Tawny Reserve. However, traditionally we have decide just to mention Reserve, since it is not mandatory to use the descriptive Tawny and allows us to enhance the name Dona Antonia.

I must admit i don't see how quite see how their statement squares with the following:

Portaria n.o 1484/2002 wrote: ....
c) Reserva Tawny ou Tawny Reserve e Reserva Branco ou White Reserve. — É o vinho de muito boa qualidade obtido por lotação de vinhos de grau de maturação variável que estagiou em madeira pelo menos sete anos, apresentando complexidade de aroma e sabor que lhe con- ferem características organolépticas específicas, devendo o rótulo obrigatoriamente conter a menção «Tawny» ou «Branco» (ou «White»);

Google translate wrote: ....
c) Tawny Reserve or Reserve Tawny and Reserve White or White Reserve. - The wine is of very good quality, obtained by blending wines of variable degree of maturation that matured in wood for at least seven years, presenting complexity of aroma and flavor that will hurt con-specific organoleptic characteristics, and the label must include the words' Tawny 'or' Branco '(or' white ');

Rob,

Cause it's Port and the IVDP. Need I say more

Rob,

As I noted before, "Tawny Reserve" is a subset of just plain "Reserve" in the regulations. Reserve encompasses a very broad spectrum of all Port, whereas Tawny Reserve and White Reserve are specialized sub categories. There is no special sub category for Ruby Reserve.

If a Producer is happy with their Port being classified as a reserve then that's all they have to call it. In order for a Port to be considered a Tawny Reserve, then it must say Tawny Reserve on the label. But you aren't required to "upgrade" your product's category if you don't want to.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Glenn E. wrote:Rob,

As I noted before, "Tawny Reserve" is a subset of just plain "Reserve" in the regulations. Reserve encompasses a very broad spectrum of all Port, whereas Tawny Reserve and White Reserve are specialized sub categories. There is no special sub category for Ruby Reserve.

That's where i disagree.

Both looking at the regulations, and looking right now at R. Mayson's book in front of me.

There is a "Reserve" category (which is broad, and a subset of which is "ruby" reserves...but which can equally cover a very tawnified port. Category created in 2002 to replace "Vintage Character")

And separately there is a "Tawny Reserve" category (white or red port, qualities of a port aged in wood for at least 7 years, carries "tawny" or "white" on the label)

But if you look at the requirements, a Tawny Reserve is just a more specific case of a Reserve.

Stated another way, all Tawny Reserves also meet all of the stated requirements to be a Reserve. Not all Reserves, however, meet the requirements to be called a Tawny (or White) Reserve.

So if you have a Port that qualifies as a Tawny Reserve, it also qualifies as a Reserve and can presumably be labeled as either.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Glenn E. wrote:But if you look at the requirements, a Tawny Reserve is just a more specific case of a Reserve.

Stated another way, all Tawny Reserves also meet all of the stated requirements to be a Reserve. Not all Reserves, however, meet the requirements to be called a Tawny (or White) Reserve.

So if you have a Port that qualifies as a Tawny Reserve, it also qualifies as a Reserve and can presumably be labeled as either.

A producer can't simply decide to bottle a "reserve" or "tawny reserve" - as i understand, samples would need to be submitted to IVDP with an application for approval in a particular category (and the port would need to be specifically approved by IVDP for that particular category).

So for IVDP purposes, there are two distinct categories, and i don't know whether a single port can be approved as being in both simultaneously.

You may well be right in terms of a port's underlying eligibility for either category - but that's a separate point (and, to extend your argument, you could presumably say the same about Crusted port meeting all the stated requirements of the Reserve category). Plus, in practice, I don't know whether IVDP do actually look to distinguish the categories by looking for distinct oenological characteristics in each.

Rob C. wrote:So for IVDP purposes, there are two distinct categories, and i don't know whether a single port can be approved as being in both simultaneously.

Oh, right. That's not what I meant... I only meant that the same Port could theoretically qualify for both categories at the same time, giving the Producer the option to choose which one they wanted to release it as. The Dona Antónia Reserva seems to be one such case.