500 ml bottles

[Paul Fountain]

I was checking out some retail websites today and came accross Quinta do Vallado 10 and 20 yr old ports in 500ml bottles, The last time I bought a Vallado 20 yr old a couple of years ago, it was definitely in a 750 ml bottle. I've also noticed some Quinta de la Rosa 2007 LBV in 500ml bottles ( a rather squat bottle at that) as well as Warres Otima.
A lot of Local Australian fotifieds have been using 500ml bottles for around a decade but I hadn't noticed too much portuguese port in 500ml bottles until the last 12 months.
Are you seeing a trend towards 500ml bottles in Europe and the US? What do you think about the adoption of this size? Do you see it being more suitable to Tawny than LBV or does the size have application accross all types of port?
I notice that the price on the Vallado 20 year old was certainly not anywhere near 1/3 less than what the 750ml used to retail for either

[Rob C.]

whereas Ramos Pinto 20yr tawny seems to have gone the other way and reverted to 750ml.

I haven't seen a trend in the UK (if anythnig, the opposite - Dow Master Blend LBV was another that used to come in a 500ml bottle that i haven't seen recently), but i can see why Dalva have moved to them for the Golden Whites - same for small producers like Lamelas, Eufamia etc. who want to eek out their old stocks. I'd be suprised if it took off as a format for VP though.

[Bradley Bogdan]

I'm personally a fan of the size as it makes it easier to cycle through more ports in a month. To echo the point about not being 2/3 the price, I had been purchasing bottles of the de la Rosa LBV and they certainly weren't 2/3 the price of a normal LBV either. The funny squat bottle did take me a while to realize it wasn't 750ml though. Their basic ruby and tawny were in that 2/3 range though.

[Paul Fountain]

whereas Ramos Pinto 20yr tawny seems to have gone the other way and reverted to 750ml.

I haven't seen a trend in the UK (if anythnig, the opposite - Dow Master Blend LBV was another that used to come in a 500ml bottle that i haven't seen recently), but i can see why Dalva have moved to them for the Golden Whites - same for small producers like Lamelas, Eufamia etc. who want to eek out their old stocks. I'd be suprised if it took off as a format for VP though.

I'd not seen any Ramos Pinto in 500 ml bottles. I bought a 1/2 dozen 20 yr old towards the end of 2011 in 750s, though the glass in those bottles has the lightest weight of any I've ever come across.
I can also see it making sense for the whites and smaller producers. I forgot that I have an Andersen 10yr old white kicking around somewhere in a 500ml bottle.

[Eric Menchen]

I have Kopke 2000 VP in 500 ml bottles. They are squared off and quite distinct. That's the only VP I've ever seen in that size.

[John F. Newman]

Warre's Otima is not 1/3 of the price of Taylor or Fonseca's 10 year, and I think Warre's is in the same class. I feel that I am paying more for less.

So I move on to other 10 years.

[Moses Botbol]

Not digging 500 ML bottles for any kind of wine. How about more 1000 ml bottles instead?

[Tom Archer]

It's easy to question the motive of marketing in 500mL - price points? - or consumers being not terribly good at their 1.5 times tables??

Certainly when product is presented in this format, it never seems to be a bargain offering..

However, there is a case for smaller bottles, of all types of wine, and I often wonder why supermarkets are so averse to stocking table wines in any format other than 75cL..

[Eric Menchen]

I buy 375s of nice non-dessert wines when I can find them and the markup isn't much more per ml than the 750s. I have some CdP in 375, and its nice to open a bottle on a quiet night with the wife for dinner.

[Tom Archer]

I buy 375s of nice non-dessert wines when I can find them and the markup isn't much more per ml than the 750s. I have some CdP in 375, and its nice to open a bottle on a quiet night with the wife for dinner.

Wife for dinner? - With fava beans??

[Andy Velebil]

I buy 375s of nice non-dessert wines when I can find them and the markup isn't much more per ml than the 750s. I have some CdP in 375, and its nice to open a bottle on a quiet night with the wife for dinner.

Wife for dinner? - With fava beans??

It's Dr. Eric to you

[Andy Velebil]

The more I've had 500ml bottles the more I'm not a fan. It's either not enough or too much. Would rather stick to 375 or 750 ml. And that has nothing to do with the cost vs bottle size argument.

[Glenn E.]

The more I've had 500ml bottles the more I'm not a fan. It's either not enough or too much. Would rather stick to 375 or 750 ml. And that has nothing to do with the cost vs bottle size argument.

At least for wine, 750ml is a much better size than 500ml. 750ml is dinner for 4. 500ml leaves someone with no wine, or everyone with not enough.

[Roy Hersh]

I wrote this back in 2005, but my feelings haven't really changed much:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/port/500port.phtml

[Eric Menchen]

I wrote this back in 2005, but my feelings haven't really changed much:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/port/500port.phtml
...
This is marketing progress! I say go all the way and put Vintage Port in a 500 ml bottle. I promise to promote the very first Port product to take the leap of faith and give it a try!

So what do you think of the 2000 Kopke? I checked the TNDB and none of your notes indicate the 500 ml bottle size.

[Roy Hersh]

I had a full case of 2000 Kopke VP ... but ALL of them were in half bottles, as in 375 ml, not 500 ml bottles.

[John M.]

I've heard that small bottles tend to age faster than larger ones---so isn't that a good thing? And if you want more, open 2!

So if small bottles age faster, how much? Is there a rule of thumb?

[Andy Velebil]

I've heard that small bottles tend to age faster than larger ones---so isn't that a good thing? And if you want more, open 2!

So if small bottles age faster, how much? Is there a rule of thumb?

There is no rule of thumb or scientific evidence. It's all empirical evidence but there is a lot of that. It may be a good thing if you're looking for the wine to age faster and be ready to drink faster. I often used to get a couple of 1/2 bottles of young VP that I planned to crack at 10-20 year intervals to check in on them. Well, that was the plan anyways some years ago which has really gone out the window as I drink and taste so much Port now from these middle years it's become unnecessary for me to keep doing that. But it is something I recommend to people who don't drink Vintage Port on a such a regular basis.

[Janet Ainsworth]

Interesting discussion. I was in France earlier this summer and noticed quite a few 500 ml. wines in restaurants. When I asked about it, I was told that they are only available in restaurants--you can't find them in shops. And they are a response to tougher drink-driving laws that were depressing the sale of wine by the bottle.

Personally, I love when a restaurant has a decent selection of 375 ml bottles so that it's easier to coordinate the wine with what people are having. Many's the time I switched my order from fish to meat or vice versa to accommodate a wine that would better match the entrees chosen by my dining partners.

[Bradley Bogdan]

Interesting discussion. I was in France earlier this summer and noticed quite a few 500 ml. wines in restaurants. When I asked about it, I was told that they are only available in restaurants--you can't find them in shops. And they are a response to tougher drink-driving laws that were depressing the sale of wine by the bottle.

Personally, I love when a restaurant has a decent selection of 375 ml bottles so that it's easier to coordinate the wine with what people are having. Many's the time I switched my order from fish to meat or vice versa to accommodate a wine that would better match the entrees chosen by my dining partners.

Same, or had to go with a less inspiring by the glass selection or more crowd pleasing bottle.