Terrantez 1795

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:00 pm

How much would one expect to pay for this at auction I have no real idea on this one.I have my eye on one which is into neck est £200

Richard Henderson · Post by **Richard Henderson** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:41 pm

What is 200 pounds, $375 U.S. ? I would pay that sum in a second or less for a 1795 Madeira. That wine has had good reviews on this site ( see the topic by Reidar below, Simon) but when so many young burgs and clarets are selling for many times that 200 pounds, buy it! I think it will sell for a lot more than that conservative estimate.

There was a recent offering of Petrus for $30,000/case.

I think Reidar would say buy all you can. A n 18th Century Madeira for 200 pounds-a no brainer!

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:18 pm

Thanks Richard I have a choice which to go for the the Terrantez or a Ferreira 1830 Garrefeira port which is est £300 pounds. I can only buy one or the other or my wife will kill me

Reidar Andersen · Post by **Reidar Andersen** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:33 am

As Richard says, go for it !!

But at such a low price I would maybe not have gone for it. Why ?

Well I think the price is way too low and myself would have been suspicious.

Why should someone sell it at such a low price ?? :twisted:

Do you know where the bottle comes from , when bottled etc ??

Reidar

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:31 am

Reidar is correct and I just noticed this thread. I'd never go for a low ball sale like that as either the bottle is a fraud looking for a sucker, or the owner knows of a serious issue he is not disclosing. This normally sells for upwards of $1800 and often, closer to 2500 per bottle.

I have had the 1830 Ferreira by the way and the bottle came from their cellar (tasted with the importer in SF in the late 1990s). It is still the oldest VP that I have tasted. Sadly, it was not a great showing. Hopefully the bottle being offered is in better shape. There are less than a half dozen of those bottles left in Ferreira's cellar today. I can show you a picture of the rack if you need it. ; )

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:13 pm

The sale is from one private cellar which mostly consists of sweet white wines and champagne, yquem and champagne from early twentieth century to the seventies.The port selection is small and mostly poor.However they have 6 madeiras all pre 20th century the Terrantez is top shoulder with old signs of seepage.Companhia vinicola is this a solera or vintage?The next oldest is a boal 1863 level is mid neck est £130

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:45 pm

Before I start chipping in with my

I will admit that I have never tasted Madeira

Roy, you say that this 1795 bottle normally sells for anything up to $2500. The fact that the estimate is below $400 suggests to me that the seller is being entirely honest about the potential for this bottle to be flawed.

However, in real money this bottle could go for £200, which is less than £1 for each year the wine has waited to be tasted. Is it not worth a punt just in case the wine is in fact in perfect condition. This seems like an opportunity for a Madeira geek to get their hands on a potentially stellar wine at a knock down price? 8)

Derek

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:48 pm

Others have already stated the possibility of a flawed bottle. But as long as you are willing to accept that fact, and won't mind losing the money if it is bad, then I say go for it. Madeira is a hearty beast, but not indestructable.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:05 pm

Let's put this in a context that more people will understand:

Fonseca 1966 VP normally sells at just over £100 per bottle. If someone offered you a potentially flawed bottle for less than £20 would you turn them away? :? - NOT A CHANCE

I appreciate that the relative value is another important consideration but if you are already in the market for £200 bottles of wine I think this is a no-brainer, so long as you accept the risk that you could lroll the dice and lose.

Derek

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:54 pm

I must admit that the seepage does concern me,but this is madeira and not port I presume the wine was bottled in the seventies or earlier.All wines have been stored correctly since being purchased by this collector.£200 for a chance to taste this I could stand the loss with a shrug however £1000 I'd be in tears.

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:47 am

Derek Turnbull wrote:Before I start chipping in with my I will admit that I have never tasted Madeira

Derek, I am quite surprised that you have never tried Madeira!

If you like tawny ports and Colheitas at all you should give Madeira a try.....but don't bother with the typical grocery store 5 and 10 years. For cheap you could try the Broadbent 10 year malmsy (~$30 US?) or the RWC classic series (~$35US), or perhaps the Cossart 15 year Bual, and you may become a convert. Don't waste your time on any Rainwater's or you may be misled, no mater how cheap they are.

Of course, perhaps it's better not to try it, as then you may acquire another expensive habit as I have!

As for punting on the 1795, I would go for it, I think your analysis is right on the money. Look at the bottle and go.

Jay

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:07 pm

Jay,

Thanks for the tips - I may just pop out and buy a few to try. I will be sure to blame you if Jo asks me any difficult questions about wht I need to find yet another stream of expensive wines to drink :?

Derek

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:30 pm

Derek

Feel free to blame it on me, since I'm probaly safe an ocean and a continent away. If I ever show up in the UK, I'll just use a false name to protect myself!

Jay

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:47 pm

Jay,

So do you maintain a decent collection of Madeira? Old bottlings too?

If your Port enthusiasm is a 10 on a 1-10 scale, where would you say your ranking would be for Madeira?

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:33 pm

Roy

My enthusiasm is high (maybe 8.5-9 compared to 10 for port, and ~7 for table wine), but my experience has been somewhat limited, and mostly recent. I started out years ago with something like a 5-year Malmsy which turned me off for a while and delayed my education. But all you need is one good one to be hooked!

Now I would be just as likely to try a Madeira at a resturant as port with dessert (sometimes more, if I cannot get a straight answer about how long the port has been open). At home I still drink more Port than Madeira.

Unfortunately thus far the collection of Madeira in my basement is very weak, compared to port. I have a selection of older bottles back to 1910 (roughly one case total), and a little more than that of more recent bottlings. I tend to open them fairly soon after I buy them, and nothing in my cellar now was there a year ago. I hope to change that over time.

I love the Madeira section of the site almost as much as the port section....great references for Madeiras to try, and thus expand my experience!

Jay

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:09 am

Thanks for elaborating Jay. It is always good to know who like what, for when tastings arise, etc.

As I don't want to go to far afield in this thread, here is an interesting tidbit on the 1795 Terrantez: http://www.madeirawineguide.com/10madei ... _vintages/

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:04 am

Thanks Roy this was very helpfull

Reidar Andersen · Post by **Reidar Andersen** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:45 am

Hi Simon

I looked on this certain bottle you are bidding for. It looks OK, a bit of seepage. If you get it, read madeirawineguide.com about recorking.

But, I believe the price will be much higher than GBP 200 !

DON'T WORRY, I WILL NOT BID. HAVE THREE 1795 T CVM in perfect shape.

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:33 am

Thanks Reidar, I'll give it go and see what happens I have not bid at this auction before.At the moment I have bids left all over the place If I win them all I'll be happy but the wife won't

simon Lisle · Post by **simon Lisle** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:19 pm

Well I've bought it 400 euro's including buyers premium all in all hopefully a good purchase.