As a European who recently relocated to Calgary, Canda, I am pretty much in shock by the high retail price of Port here.
A quick comparison on wine-searcher.com shows that the prices in the UK or US are typically around 1/3 - 1/2 of the selling price here in Canada.
Does anybody of you have experience with ordering wine/port in the US (or even the UK), over the internet, for delivery in Canada? Do you have to pay additional import duties?
Anybody interesting in combining an order?
Tom
Port retail prices in Canada...
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
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Frederick Blais
- Posts: 2744
- Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:07 am
- Location: Porto, Portugal
Yes the price are quite prohibitive in Canada, especially in Quebec. Calgary is probably the cheapest place to buy wine in Canada. A few friends of mine do transfer some bottles from Calgary to Montreal from time to time.
Since the price are so high, I know a lot of people who are ordering wines from the US successfuly. Batch of 1-4 bottles is the best way, above that, customs get suspicious and open the package for verification.
1st thing you have to do is to find a retailer in the US that is willing to send you the package
2nd the package must not have any indication about wine or alcohol written on it. A good excuse to write on the package is: "spare parts, olive oil, glass fragile".
3rd if the package get caught, you can either send it back for no charge in most of the case and get a refund from the retailer or drive to the customs and pay the fees to have your bottles. Ask for a false bill so it does not cost you much. Normally they charge 100% of the cost of the bottles.
During my last trip to Portugal I did bring back 15 bottles. I got caught but with false bills I paid only 30$ for all of that.
These steps are mainly the tactics to do if you live in Quebec. I don't know if it is the same in Alberta since it is a private system.
Since the price are so high, I know a lot of people who are ordering wines from the US successfuly. Batch of 1-4 bottles is the best way, above that, customs get suspicious and open the package for verification.
1st thing you have to do is to find a retailer in the US that is willing to send you the package
2nd the package must not have any indication about wine or alcohol written on it. A good excuse to write on the package is: "spare parts, olive oil, glass fragile".
3rd if the package get caught, you can either send it back for no charge in most of the case and get a refund from the retailer or drive to the customs and pay the fees to have your bottles. Ask for a false bill so it does not cost you much. Normally they charge 100% of the cost of the bottles.
During my last trip to Portugal I did bring back 15 bottles. I got caught but with false bills I paid only 30$ for all of that.
These steps are mainly the tactics to do if you live in Quebec. I don't know if it is the same in Alberta since it is a private system.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
The import duty bringing wine directly into Alberta (Edmonton/Calgary) is not that bad according to friends there. I can find out the exact rate but believe if you are caught with an undeclared shipment it is some ridiculous percentage. It seems that if you DO declare the wine upfront and pay for wines at rates suggested by Frederick, then you will pay a very small percentage.
My friends in Edmonton buy their wines in CA or WA State and have them shipped to Spokane and then come down twice a year and load up the trunk. They then bring it into Canada. I am not sure if they pay duty or not at that point.
My friends in Edmonton buy their wines in CA or WA State and have them shipped to Spokane and then come down twice a year and load up the trunk. They then bring it into Canada. I am not sure if they pay duty or not at that point.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Thanks for all your information gentlemen!
Frederick, interesting story, if the penalty is 100% of the costs, when you get caught importing wine without paying duty, and in your case, you had to pay only 30$ for 15 bottles, then I presume your false bill showed a price of only 2$ per bottle!?!
That poor customs guy really didn't know much about wines! Lucky you!!
Roy, if it is not too much work, I would really like to know what the exact rate is for Alberta, when you declare a shipment upfront. Do you also know how I can declare a shipment upfront?
Many thanks for the information!
Tom
Frederick, interesting story, if the penalty is 100% of the costs, when you get caught importing wine without paying duty, and in your case, you had to pay only 30$ for 15 bottles, then I presume your false bill showed a price of only 2$ per bottle!?!
That poor customs guy really didn't know much about wines! Lucky you!!
Roy, if it is not too much work, I would really like to know what the exact rate is for Alberta, when you declare a shipment upfront. Do you also know how I can declare a shipment upfront?
Many thanks for the information!
Tom
I have reached out to my friend in Edmonton who will be along within the next 48 hours to provide insight and accurate facts and figures.
Roy
Roy
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
humm Fred,
I was told purchase price is not a factor, it is estimated fair market price here in Quebec. I inquired about bringing a lot of port I have in storage over there. I claimed it was like oil paintings, a collection meant to be kept as a whole and not for drinking, in fact an inheritance. I was told the SAQ would evaluate it and I would pay X% tax rate on what those bottles would sell here if sold by the SAQ.
Pure robbery, because some ports were purchase before the portuguese revolution of 74 and today are worth much more than paid for.
The best is still to carry in physically yourself small batches. 4 to 6 bottles per traveller.
cheers
Paba
I was told purchase price is not a factor, it is estimated fair market price here in Quebec. I inquired about bringing a lot of port I have in storage over there. I claimed it was like oil paintings, a collection meant to be kept as a whole and not for drinking, in fact an inheritance. I was told the SAQ would evaluate it and I would pay X% tax rate on what those bottles would sell here if sold by the SAQ.
Pure robbery, because some ports were purchase before the portuguese revolution of 74 and today are worth much more than paid for.
The best is still to carry in physically yourself small batches. 4 to 6 bottles per traveller.
cheers
Paba
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Richard Beeken
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:00 pm
I'm the "friend in Edmonton".
Re purchase and importation:
1. Laws re duty and taxes and such on wine brought into Canada are mostly provincial domain and you must consider them on a province by province basis. In Alberta the combined federal and provinciual duties amount to about $3.50 per liter. In addition you must pay Goods and Services Tax of 6% on the value of the wine - generally the purchase price is accepted though may be challenged against known retail price. Over many years of bringing back treasures from the US, I have never had my declaratiion of the value of the wine I was bringing in checked or challenged, nor have I had to provide receipts.
2. But BEWARE! In British Columbia, for example, the combined federal and provincial duties with GST is calculated differently and amounts to about 118% of the value of the wine. That is, to bring your treasured bottle of 77 Fonseca to a friend's house in Vancouver for dinner you will pay its nominal value of $200 US X 1.18. or $236 US in duty and tax. Talk about protectionist tariffs . . . Customs at BC border points is also, I hear, more attentive to wine issues, including proof of value, than in Alberta. I am not sure of the situation in all of the provinces and you should check before you travel. Strictly speaking, this crazy duty is also chargeable on wine transported from one province to another - as in me bringing wine to Blair and Bronwyn's for dinner in Vancouver.
3. Returning Canadian residents generally have a 1.5 liter duty freee exemption. I am frankly not sure if this applies to wine brought into Canada by residents of other countries.
4. Shipping, mailing or otherwise importing wine into Canada (other than carrying it in yourself and paying duty and tax) is illegal unless you are a licensed agent. I know it is done, and how, but it is illegal and risks include confiscation and prosecution. I've always been of the view that if it's wine worth going to the trouble of bringing in , its wine too valuable to risk - there's usually a way to have it held safe in the US until I or a friend can bring it in in person.
Hope that's helpful.
I totally agree that Port prices here can be silly - Madeira seems to be even worse. But, as everywhere, judicious shopping can reduce the pain - for example, 2000 Fonseca can be found in Edmonton for $99 per 750 ml - with the Canadian dollar factored in, that's not a prohibitive price - on the other hand, an otherwise sane retailer I know is selling 63 Fonseca (liobrary release, I think) for $780, which is silly but is based on his normal mark-up. Go figure. On the other hand we get some wonderful prices on Australian, Italian (01 Massetto @$225 C), though generally our Bordeaux prices are crappy.
While I'm here, if any of you port-o-philes are going to be in Edmonton, shout and we'll get together.
Richard
Re purchase and importation:
1. Laws re duty and taxes and such on wine brought into Canada are mostly provincial domain and you must consider them on a province by province basis. In Alberta the combined federal and provinciual duties amount to about $3.50 per liter. In addition you must pay Goods and Services Tax of 6% on the value of the wine - generally the purchase price is accepted though may be challenged against known retail price. Over many years of bringing back treasures from the US, I have never had my declaratiion of the value of the wine I was bringing in checked or challenged, nor have I had to provide receipts.
2. But BEWARE! In British Columbia, for example, the combined federal and provincial duties with GST is calculated differently and amounts to about 118% of the value of the wine. That is, to bring your treasured bottle of 77 Fonseca to a friend's house in Vancouver for dinner you will pay its nominal value of $200 US X 1.18. or $236 US in duty and tax. Talk about protectionist tariffs . . . Customs at BC border points is also, I hear, more attentive to wine issues, including proof of value, than in Alberta. I am not sure of the situation in all of the provinces and you should check before you travel. Strictly speaking, this crazy duty is also chargeable on wine transported from one province to another - as in me bringing wine to Blair and Bronwyn's for dinner in Vancouver.
3. Returning Canadian residents generally have a 1.5 liter duty freee exemption. I am frankly not sure if this applies to wine brought into Canada by residents of other countries.
4. Shipping, mailing or otherwise importing wine into Canada (other than carrying it in yourself and paying duty and tax) is illegal unless you are a licensed agent. I know it is done, and how, but it is illegal and risks include confiscation and prosecution. I've always been of the view that if it's wine worth going to the trouble of bringing in , its wine too valuable to risk - there's usually a way to have it held safe in the US until I or a friend can bring it in in person.
Hope that's helpful.
I totally agree that Port prices here can be silly - Madeira seems to be even worse. But, as everywhere, judicious shopping can reduce the pain - for example, 2000 Fonseca can be found in Edmonton for $99 per 750 ml - with the Canadian dollar factored in, that's not a prohibitive price - on the other hand, an otherwise sane retailer I know is selling 63 Fonseca (liobrary release, I think) for $780, which is silly but is based on his normal mark-up. Go figure. On the other hand we get some wonderful prices on Australian, Italian (01 Massetto @$225 C), though generally our Bordeaux prices are crappy.
While I'm here, if any of you port-o-philes are going to be in Edmonton, shout and we'll get together.
Richard
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Frederick Blais
- Posts: 2744
- Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:07 am
- Location: Porto, Portugal
Paul, the law is very complicated. To bring back such a collection in Quebec free of tax, you have to move with it. Once you have move to Québec I don't think it is possible anymore.
Secondly, wath I state above is for when you bring back bottles with you on the plane. You are allowed to bring no more than 14 bottles, more than that you need to be an importer.
Anything that does not get bought directly at the vineyards by the SAQ, the actual release price will be evaluated by them. Yes it is robery. You probably read Yves Boivert in La Presse, each year he complain about this system that still work as if we where in the prohibition years. It is a shame!
Secondly, wath I state above is for when you bring back bottles with you on the plane. You are allowed to bring no more than 14 bottles, more than that you need to be an importer.
Anything that does not get bought directly at the vineyards by the SAQ, the actual release price will be evaluated by them. Yes it is robery. You probably read Yves Boivert in La Presse, each year he complain about this system that still work as if we where in the prohibition years. It is a shame!
paba wrote:humm Fred,
I was told purchase price is not a factor, it is estimated fair market price here in Quebec. I inquired about bringing a lot of port I have in storage over there. I claimed it was like oil paintings, a collection meant to be kept as a whole and not for drinking, in fact an inheritance. I was told the SAQ would evaluate it and I would pay X% tax rate on what those bottles would sell here if sold by the SAQ.
Pure robbery, because some ports were purchase before the portuguese revolution of 74 and today are worth much more than paid for.
The best is still to carry in physically yourself small batches. 4 to 6 bottles per traveller.
cheers
Paba
Living the dream and now working for a Port company