For The Love Of Port

I'm curious to know what date the oldest bottle of Port is in your own collections. Or the oldest Port you have ever had the opportunity to drink. Mine is and 1896 Dow, after that it would be a 1900 Taylor's.
Are there any bottles of Port known to exist from the 1700's?

From my own cellar, the oldest known bottle is a Feuerheerd 1896, and the oldest opened a Martinez 1908. I also own a very ancient unknown, whose poor quality glass moulding suggests a 19th century bottling.

The current bottle shape (that is, one that can be laid on it's side to keep the cork moist) hails from the beginning of the 19th century. Prior to that, there was little interest in keeping bottles for very long periods.

I recall the Sandeman lodge has an unopened bottle of an older design, but age unknown.

Tom

Oldest bottle what I have is Quinta do Loureiro Colheita 1871. Interesting question indeed is, how old is the oldest bottle which still exist? Tom, what is the oldest that you have seen auctioned?

-Antti-

Tom, what is the oldest that you have seen auctioned

Not that old. Ancient madeiras get sold almost every month, but the number of 19th century vintage port bottles sold each year is only around the half dozen mark, and I can't recall anything with a confirmed identity dating from earlier than the 1840's.

The problem is that many 19th century port bottles did not have embossed capsules, and relied on luggage tags tied round their necks for i.d. After 100 years in a damp cellar, these tags tend to disintegrate.

Some 'unknown' bottles are doubtless very old, but the corks can reduce to crumbs when extracted, making i.d. impossible.

This is one of the reasons I am building (albeit very slowly!) a contraption to remove and preserve ancient corks.

Tom

Sitting in my cellar are Colheitas back to 1815 and my oldest VP is an 1863 Ferreira "Vesuvio."

However, the oldest VP I have actually consumed was a bottle of 1830 Ferreira which came directly from Ferreira back in 1998, while I have had 3 bottles of 1863 Colheitas: two were Niepoort's and one was a very different bottle of Ferreira. This year, that will change!

As far as really old bottles, the cellar I have seen with the oldest bottles is Ferreira's. They currently have 6 bottles each of 1815 and 1820 VPs ... which debunks the myth about 1820 being the oldest Vintage Port bottled in the current style. Also they have a dozen from 1830, these being their oldest VPs in stock. Remarkable to see THOSE bottles which are guaranteed to be authentic and of pristine provenance.


Tom,

From my experience, even if you can extract the corks very gently without almost any crumbling (I have occasionally been "lucky" with an Ah So), the odds of still being able to read a branded cork from the pre-Phylloxera era is just about nil. Even the ones I have successfully pulled from the mid to late 1800s have been barely legible .. maybe a couple of letters and vintage dates were not able to be read. Fortunately, these were ex-cellars bottlings but I wanted the corks as well as the bottles as souvenirs.

uncle tom wrote:
This is one of the reasons I am building (albeit very slowly!) a contraption to remove and preserve ancient corks.

Tom

That's interesting! May I borrow it when it's ready? I guess we all have this same problem with old corks. Hmm, it can't be any kind of drill system thorough the cork.. it must be some kind of gentle air pressure lift system.. Am I even close?

-Antti-

it must be some kind of gentle air pressure lift system..

Yes, a gas injection system with counterpressure on the outside of the bottle to prevent explosion.

The rising cork will be held by a succession of rising grips to prevent the gas from blowing the cork apart, also to enable the gas pressure to be reduced to near zero when the cork is about to clear the bottle.

The rise of the cork will be controlled by an overhead gantry.

Tom

Roy said:

the odds of still being able to read a branded cork from the pre-Phylloxera era is just about nil

If this is because the cork has so darkened with age that there is little contrast between the colour of the cork and the branding, it might be possible to bring out the text by immersing the cork in Hydrogen Peroxide.

This should have a bleaching effect on the wood of the cork, but the charcoal of the brand would be unaffected.

If anyone has an old illegible cork, I'd be happy to experiment for them!

Tom

Very interesting...Does Ferreira or any other Port house actually sell any bottles from their older stock (pre 1940's)?


Tom
The cork removal device sounds very promising ..please keep us updated, I would love to be able to get corks out in one piece!

Does Ferreira or any other Port house actually sell any bottles from their older stock

Yes, Ferreira do, but you'll need to remortgage your home to afford a bottle. I don't think they're in any hurry to sell...

Tom

I have opened a 1955 Taylor from my own collection . I opened and posted notes about it at the same time Roy was posting on a 1900 Taylor .

I have tasted a 1900 Colheita, producer unknown, at our local Friday wine group.

Have you ever thougt of using Port Tongs and afterwards do the same along the remaining piece of glass with the Cork from two sides at the same time?

I thought of another kind of tong going down either outside of the ramining piese of glass. If you heat it, and then cool rapidly you should have two halves of glass and are probably able to take out the cork without any presure whatsoever.

If you are planning to drink an unknown bottle regardless, there are several techniques for cutting the neck off the bottle. You can then carefully break the neck to reveal the cork.

My objective is to remove the cork leaving both the bottle and the cork intact, so that the identity can be established and the bottle re-corked (with a new cork)

Tom

Oldest VP I have drank: 1927 taylor
Oldest VP I have drank from my own cellar: 1955 Taylor
Oldest VP in my cellar: 1897 Byass

Oldest Tawny: Porta Rocha's 150th Anniversary tawny. A blend of 5 barrells with the youngest being 100 years and the oldest 150 years. I had a glass of this at a great little wine bar in Fredericksburg, Tx and it was amazing. I bought the remaining 500 ml. bottle from them for $160 US.

Scott,

I think you'll enjoy these oldie but goodie threads:

This one is on the wine you love: http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/sho ... ight=Rocha

This is just fun and funny on Rocha:
http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/sho ... nniversary

The oldest port that I have ever drunk is a Burmester 1937 colheita. I drank that about 20 years ago when I was just at the beginning of my port drinking life and it was one of those epiphany moments when I realised just how good port could be.

The oldest wine in my cellar is an 1878 unknown vintage port that I bought last year from a retailer who bought it from an old country house. The year of the vintage is embossed on the wax capsule but there are no shipper details to be found. From memory, my next oldest would be a 1927 so I need to try and find a way to plug that 50 year gap.

Alex

The oldest bottle in my cellar is an 1873 port (assumed VP) bottled by an extinct UK Merchant named White's of Leicester. I had 2 of these, both leakers, so I opened both, topped one up from the other, re-corked one and drank what remained in the other. I will re-visit this one day.

The next oldest is an 1888 Lange's VP - an Auzzie imposter - this leaks but I keep it because it is from the year that my favourite football (soccer) team were founded. I bought it for £30 on Ebay and I am quite sure it would taste like dishwater so it will remain unopened in my lifetime.

3rd oldest is an Unkown Shipper 1890 in great condition. This is the most likely to see a corkscrew out of the 3 listed here 8)

Derek

[quote="Roy Hersh"]Scott,

I think you'll enjoy these oldie but goodie threads:
This one is on the wine you love: http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/sho ... ight=Rocha

Roy,

Thanks so much for the old discussion threads on the Rocha 150th Anniversary-it was one of the finest tawnies I have ever tasted for sure.

Also thanks again publicly for such a great site. I just discovered this site a few weeks back and have thoroughly enjoyed all the TN's, discussion, and tips imbedded throughout. I am basically a self taught Port lover and it's funny how many of my personal discoveries on various Ports, and things I have noticed over the years (decanting, aging value Ports, etc) are actually the same things you fellow port fools all discuss and notice too... I love it, I've found a new home and my wife now accuses me of surfing my "Port Porn" Site.

I had 2 of these, both leakers, so I opened both, topped one up from the other, re-corked one and drank what remained in the other. I will re-visit this one day.

Derek you tease! Not even a single impression of what it was like to try that bottle? Come on man, share the wealth.


Scott,

It is our mission to promote Port wine, educate the masses and separate families. Well, at least 2 out of 3!

Roy,

This was from my pre-TN days so will have to do from memory. Both bottles had thrown massive amounts of crust. The bottles were light green/brown glass and a mass of crust could be seen to fill around one third of each bottle. I left the crust intact in the bottle I topped up.

The wine itself was a very light brown, almost yellow/green. The absence of colour obviously being due to the amount of crust thrown. I can't remember the smell. The taste was very sweet and mouthfeel very thick. The only specific flavour I remember was a hint of apples.

This is also the oldest wine my then 10 year old son has ever tasted - it's exactly 130 years older than he is 8)

Sorry, but this is all I can do on this one.

Derek