For The Love Of Port

just curious what you do when you encounter a corked bottle. after decanting, and its still obvious its tainted, do you stillk drink it or pour it down the drain? i recently had a corked 83 cockburns, when right its one of my absolute faves, but i ended up drinking it simply because it was expensive, the taste was not as bad as the nose, and we had a crew of port lovers over who had just consumed a 77 warres`ands were not done for the night. i had nothing else decanted, so we consumed it and were not 100% disappointed. although its far from ideal, the nose and bouquet so integral to vp, does anyone else consume it or am i committing a cardinal sin? it doesn't seem right to just dispose of it.
anyone else have thoughts on what to do when encountering corked , older vintages?

It's a matter of degree. I have encountered one or two bottles of port over the years that were so unfit to drink I wouldn't even cook with them, but for the most part, evidence of being corked serves as a demerit rather than a sentence to the sink.

Individual sensitivity also plays a part - whilst I seem able to detect a corked bottle as well as anyone, it only rarely stops me enjoying the bottle, although with table wines, I usually dump them.

Others sometimes react more dramatically - whether this is down to hypersensitivity to TCA, theatrical pretension (or a bit of both!) - can be hard to determine :?

And yes, older bottles can be corked too, although '83 barely qualifies as old

Tom

I went for many years with just a very few bottles of corked wines. Ask anybody who came along on the Port Harvest Tour and they'll all tell you that I am hypersensitive to TCA. Unlike Tom, I can find no pleasure in consuming corked bottles of Port. I will cook with them though as it is true that TCA will cook off and the resulting wine in a sauce will be without any trace of it on aromatically or the flavor.

Amazingly ... knocking on wood, I have NEVER had a bottle of TCA tainted Madeira. I have had the most number of TCA infected bottles from German Riesling< FWIW.

Some of us here recently encountered a corked Noval Nacional 2000 - can you guess what we done with it

I can honestly say that the only port I have ever poured down a sink is the stuff I use to rinse my decanters.

Derek

Some of us here recently encountered a corked Noval Nacional 2000 - can you guess what we done with it

Uhh, Come on, it was my first NN, so you think I wasn't going to drink it

But this was Roy >>> <<< and this was us.

Great question to throw out there. Like Roy, I seemed to have gone a decent few years without opening any tainted VIP Ports. Mainly I dump them down the drain unless they are an all star or otherwise excellent VP or an old colheita. If the taint is slight I usually try to work my way thru a glass or two to see if I can muster any joy such as a long tasty finish. Usually though, it ends up in the cooking cupboard.

it seems like there are a few vintages and producers with more problems of cork taint than others. the 83 cockburns has had quite a few problems, and i seem to recall here in this forum of a few 77 dows being tainted. a few questions:
has cockburns ever admitted to a bad batch of corks? have they acknowledged a problem with that vintage? i just bought a half case from a reputable dealer, and the first 2 were corked. do i have any recourse here, or is it caveat emptor and pray for the remaining bottles.?
have there been other notable vintages/producers with a bad track record on tca? i seem to recall suckling writing an article for ws on tainted/bad corks pertaining to the 1985 vintage and how certain producers experienced wildly varying degrees of cork quality. can't seem to locate it in their archives however.
curious how many others have had this problem, and if it was indiginous to the 83-85 vintages?

dave

Dave

The two wines that I have experienced most severe corking problems are the Gould Campbell 77 (three out of four were corked last year) and the Cockburns 83 (two for two, so far).

The main effect this has on me is that I tend to prefer not to take the risk of buying more of these wines but to spend my money elsewhere, where I see a better chance of being able to buy port that I will enjoy. I think to some extent the prices of the Cockburn '83 are lower than they would otherwise be as a result of this perceived corking problem.

Alex

The 1983 Cockburn is great when you can find a perfect bottle. However, the last 3 of 4 I have opened my my own cellar (these were purcchased from 2 outstanding sources in the early 1990s) were corked. I had two in the same day when Nicos Neocleous was here and was very unhappy (to say the least). In the past five years after not having more than a half dozen corked PORTs of any kind that were corked, I have experienced probably two dozen corked bottles. Many of these have been while in Portugal as well as trade tastings here in the USA. At least half of those times, key trade members were pouring their own wines and I had to point out to them the bottles were corked and felt that it was my duty to let them know so they would not taint the consumer's impression of the wines. In every case but one they agreed with me. The winemaker who ahall remain anonymous here felt I was incorrect and kept pouring the wine as I watched incredulously. Even if it was a very low level TCA issue, why take a chance?

Anyway, for some reason I do come across more corked bottles of Vintage Port, than any other type but I also drink far more vintage 90%, than all others combined (10%). Maybe because I am tasting upwards of 400 bottles of Port/year now but still ...

oy vey!
i just purchased a case of 77 goulds, at a wonderful price too. i've opened one and it was delicious. i sure hope i don't experience what you did alex. the online retailer said it was purchased from an impeccable source in london.
so if gould 77 is off your list alex, what 77 would you be looking to buy in the same price range?
roy, do you think the mid 80's cockburns had a cork problem in general?

dave

Dave,

I've got to say that the one bottle of GC 77 that I have had that was untainted was very good - but was it worth the agony of the three bad ones? Not to me. You asked which '77 I would be buying in the same price range if I am not buying the GC - the answer is....none of them. '77 is under-represented in my cellar and will probably remain so. I would rather spend my money on the '80s and '90s.

Alex

alex,
i hope that a few corked bottles have not caused you to completely shun the 77 vintage. it is a wonderful year, i've enjoyed about 20 bottles from various houses in the past couple years and they've all been very good to outstanding. even second tier producers like gould, smith woodhouse, and warres made tremendous ports. i've yet to encounter a corked 77, my unlucky year is 1983--i've had several corked bottles recently.
are you avoiding 77 because of the cork issue, or do you feel the 80's and 90's are just better and better values??

I just had a dissapointing weekend TWO corked Cockburn 1983.

Both purchased from a very reliable source and both bottles were in pristine condition.

Both bottles were so badly corked that it overwhelmed and possible pleasure.

Down the drain was the only solution.

Last of these that I buy.

Don't feel bad Jon. I got 2 in my cellar and I have not gotten around to opening them. I think more out of being scared they will be corked after all the bad experiences with them.

Obviously Cockburns must have had some kind of problem as there are WAY TOO MANY corked bottles of this Vintage. Has Cockburns ever admitted, on or off the record, to this problem? Or have they ever offered to replace the bad bottles?

I know in older bottles it is a bit of buyer beware, and I've never returned a corked bottle for a replacement. But the shear number of bad bottles of 1983 Cockburns VP leads me to think that Cockburns should do something about it.

The wine industry is the only business which knows IN ADVANCE that a significant percentage of their product will go bad because of the closure that they use.

Even in everyday wines there is such bottle variation, even among the same or multiple cases which I have purchased, that IMHO it can only be due to the closure.

As a consumer we can only voice our opinions by either buying the product or not.

The choise of giveing up drinking is not much of a choise at all.

Dosen't the industry get it.

We, the public, don't care what they use to seal the bottles if it works 99.99% of the time.

It is time for a major change in closures.

Dave,

I'm not shunning the '77 vintage in any sort of fanatical or complete way, but it is just that I feel that some other vintages represent better value for money for current drinking than does that particular year.

Alex

The wine industry is the only business which knows IN ADVANCE that a significant percentage of their product will go bad because of

Er, I dunno. Doesn't the "Big 3" in Detroit follow the same biz practice? They are in the business to sell cars and lemons ... with the latter within their limited control.

In the same regard, the Port and general wine industry world wide does take the cork taint issue seriously. However, natural cork for me is a living and breathing thing and therefore some tolerable level of "failure" is natural. All I ask is that the cork producers and as importantly, the wine producers -- take every legitimate precaution possible to check for TCA batch-by-batch to limit our exposure. I also believe that each producer should stand by their product when it comes to TCA ... even 50 years down the road! It is a cost they should bear, not the consumer.

That said, I've probably had 100 corked bottles in my life ... of a possible 5-10 thousand that I've been exposed to. Never once have I ever returned a bottle ... EXCEPT in a restaurant setting where I am not willing to "eat it."

Detroit does produce some lemons but there are serious consequences, legal and otherwise which the wine producers do not face or fear.

Detroit does not knowlengly sell lemons.

The wine industry KNOWS that a certain percentage of the closures will fail yet they have refused to look elsewhere.

It seems that with all the advances in technology the wine/cprk industry should either get cork right or move to other types of closures which will preserve the wine in the way which does not jepardise the consumer down the road.

What happens whenin 20-30 years I start to enjoy my 2003 ports and a few, some or all of the bottles are bad like the Cockburn 1983,

Who can I get redress from?

The vineyards might be owned by different entities.

Who will speak for the small consumer of wines??