Should I stay or should I go now?

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:22 pm

I am hoping the topic heading will get people to open this thread and vote!

Actually, Stewart and I are wrestling over the idea of whether to maintain the "new" Forum format or to revert back to the old one. I believe that it is more important for us to listen to what YOU want ... before we make this type of decision.

So here is your opPORTunity to control the destiny of the entire FORUM moving forward.

YOUR INFLUENCE COUNTS ... USE IT!

Please do feel free to elaborate your thoughts below.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:54 pm

I only marked "Blow it up and start all over" because I love blowing things up. But I am torn with this question as I have (believe it or not) thought about sending you guys an email about the new forum. Here are some of my positves and negatives, then I'll give an opinion at the end.

POSITIVE:
1- No more porn (although the pics were funny on a few occassions...sorry digressing)
2- how it is integrated with link bottons on the left side
3- when you click on a url link it automaticly opens in a new window
4- so much easier to upload an avitar or picture

NEGATIVE:
1- the dual scroll bars are TOTALLY killing me, its getting more frustrating the longer I use it.
2- there is no more "New Post" or "post Reply" button at the top of the topic. You have to scroll all the way to the bottom to do this
3- same as #2, but with the return to the forum botton
4- the type is WAY to small. Its hard for me to read, and I got better than 20/20 vision (whatever that is)
5- It does not seem to integrate very well with the registration part of the main site (i.e. I can't change my signature line anymore)
6- it seems too narrow, when you write a long post it makes a "tall" post, which when others reply, makes a very long thread. Add the dual scroll bars in, and OUCH!

I guess if the negatives can be easily fixed then I say keep the new forum. As I do like how it is integrated with the rest of the site. However, if this new forum format is going to be an ever-problematic Albatross, then by all means, let a "White Squall" kill it. I know Stewart works his tail-off behind the scene here, something I am very grateful for (thanks Stewart!), but sometimes there is only so much one can do when the raw product you have to work with is not very good to begin with.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:01 pm

Andy for the Dual Scrollbar, you can still use the Forum with the old address at http://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/ so you do not browse it in a frame inside the home page.

For the 2 things I'm missing is the size of the Font and the quick links like "show new postings", "show postings in last 24hours" stuff like that used to help a lot when you don't have much time to figure all that you miss. I did choose what makes life easier to Stewart because I know rolling back is not an easy job :). You are ready to rollback if there is an error on loading the new website, but once the new website is on and running, it is not always doable to translate back into old tables the new contents!

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:47 pm

I voted to go with whatever makes Stewart's life easier.

However, I have to say that I am a big, big fan of the new site. Yes, I know it has its problems, but I like it.

The dual scroll bars don't bother me. I have them, but their impact on me seems to be much less than on others - perhaps because I use the wheel in my mouse to scroll up and down and the area that scrolls depends on where the cursor is at the time I spin the wheel.

The font size is fine. But then I often choose to prepare documents in 8 and 6 point font size. I have experimented to see if I can find an Internet Explorer setting that might help folks, but I haven't yet.

The issue of the buttons that Fred has identified is probably my biggest gripe - and that is a relatively small one. I would like the ability to be able to click post reply or post new thread from both the top and bottom of a particular thread. I would also like to be able to click "back" from a thread I was reading and be at the top of the previous page rather than way down the bottom................in fact, so far down the bottom that I see nothing but a blank screen and have to overcome my panic attack before I remember what has happened.

But I want to make sure that these negatives are kept in balance for my opinion. I believe that the old format was fine, but I like this one more. I think it looks cleaner, more up to date, and is very easy to use. I'd love to stick with it but would only be prepared to do so if it made Stewart (and Roy's) lives easier.

Alex

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:24 pm

bridgema wrote:
The font size is fine. But then I often choose to prepare documents in 8 and 6 point font size. I have experimented to see if I can find an Internet Explorer setting that might help folks, but I haven't yet.

Alex

For the font size, there is a quick trick that you can do, though you have to do it at each log-in

You have to hold the CTRL button while playing with the mouse wheel. It will set font size settings for this Browsing window. It will reset once you close it.

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:55 am

My double scroll bars have gone!!

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:17 am

Fred,

Thanks for the tip, I now have larger size type....but do you know how to do it on an apple I-Mac (my home computer) as I have no wheel on my mouse...or is it time to upgrade to their newer mouse with a wheel?

Alex,
Mine are still there in the regular forum, but the link Fred gave above does eliminate them :)

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:56 pm

I went with whatever makes Stewarts life easier. The scroll bars do not bother me either, as I use the mouse "wheel" all the time. My sole complaint is the font size. Up one or two point would be better for me.

Keep up the good work!

Jay

Otto Nieminen · Post by **Otto Nieminen** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:13 am

I've only just arrived back from a long trip abroad and I'm frustrated with the new outlook. I can handle the dual scroll bars, annoying though they are, but the biggest issue I have is somewhat perplexing: here on my work computer I can see the post reply and start new thread buttons, but they have vanished when I try to look for them on my home computer!?! How is that possible? Usually it isn't so quiet at the shop as it is now, so I can't peruse these pages from work on most days. If someone can tell me how to post from home, I'm happy with the new outlook.

-O-

Michael Ferrier · Post by **Michael Ferrier** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:49 am

The new forum is fine except for the double scroll bars. It is not acceptable to have to switch between two sites. I don't think I've seen double scroll bars anywhere else. The only other alternative is to get a mouse with two balls so one can move both scroll bars together.

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:56 pm

Thank you guys for your honest feedback. I like it and think we need more. To have just a handful of people respond here is not what I hoped. I thought we'd get a MUCH larger sampling of folks voting above.

All I can say is that if you don't vote and/or don't comment now ... please don't ... WHINE later!

Philip Harvey · Post by **Philip Harvey** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:14 am

I think the new format is fine - lets go with it. And anyway, why go back? Just because we got used to the old one and felt comfortable with it? Using that rationale, nothing would ever change, anywhere, ever.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:33 pm

It looks like so far that people are either 1) very kind to say they will take whatever makes my job easier or 2) happy (mostly) with the new format.

I know that there are some improvements that we can make to the new format if we ultimately decide to keep it. Many of the things people miss from the old site we can work on puttting here on the new format (like getting rid of double scroll bars, returning some of the removed links to the top of the forum page, and a couple of other things).

Roy and I will be chatting soon to discuss the feedback, and our plan for how to further improve the forum experience for everyone.

Thanks everyone for your feedback, and if you haven't chimed in yet, please take a moment to do so.

Stewart

John Owlett · Post by **John Owlett** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:06 pm

I still use the old site for three things:

avoiding the double scroll bars;

the article archive;and

the newsletter archive.

Later,

Dr Owl

----------------------------
John Owlett, Southampton, UK

Mike McCune · Post by **Mike McCune** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:39 pm

Change: get rid of the double scroll bars

Add: advertising to help support funding requirements, which might allow someday for bringing back the tasting notes to public availability. How many people now have payed for 'tasting notes+'? Although a worthy goal, I'm guessing it has reduced the number of people who actually have access to notes which seems to have made a small pond even smaller which seems to defeat the purpose of the web site in the first place - just my thoughts. To me the pay aspect (for tasting notes) has changed the whole tone of the site. My gut reaction was that $20 wouldn't be a problem, but at $40 the chief said 'no'.

Gizzyeq · Post by **Gizzyeq** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:52 am

Aside from the usual cosmetic changes that everyone else is also asking for...the vertical and horizontal scroll bars, and the missing links from the old site (article archive, newsletter archive, vintage chart)
I voted to keep it as it is

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:13 am

To me the pay aspect (for tasting notes) has changed the whole tone of the site. My gut reaction was that $20 wouldn't be a problem, but at $40 the chief said 'no'.

As a personal friend in addition to being an FTLOP member, I thought it important to clarify the point you have raised above. I respect your opinion and want to make sure that the motivations involved are well understood and 100% transparent.

The Tasting Note portion of the website is merely one component of what is being offered here. There is the FTLOP newsletter that will continue to be FREE for a third consecutive year, an interactive FORUM which will remain open access and the website of course.

I have not asked for a "subscription" that must be paid in order to have access to any or all 3 areas. You wrote: I'm guessing it has reduced the number of people who actually have access to notes which seems to have made a small pond even smaller

Actually, in the past four weeks since the donation concept was added to the site, we have had over 90 new members sign up on the website, which in fact, is an unprecedented number of new registrants since the first month of the website's launching. So the pond has grown by nearly 20% in just one month, which I find a very positive sign and gratifying.

You wrote: Add: advertising to help support funding requirements, which might allow someday for bringing back the tasting notes to public availability.

To be 100% frank, I do not see advertising adding anything but clutter to this or any website. Banner ads are ugly, if not a distracting disfigurement IMO. After three years in the public domain, my tasting notes will never again be available in that way. I certainly respect your right NOT to participate as a member of the FTLOP Partnership Program.

As you know better than most here, I have not worked a real job since beginning my newsletter and have devoted my time to building a more professional newsletter, website and Forum ... for the enjoyment of Port, Madeira and Douro wine lovers from around the world. It may be a small venue and a small niche, but it is my duty to promote and educate folks about Port and the other areas. In the past 5 years alone, I have spent at least 10 hours per week, every week ... responding to emails I receive about Port and Madeira. Questions range from how to decant, what to buy and please help me authenticate this bottle, types of topics.

In addition, I have brought Stewart Todd on board to design and administer this website, assist with the newsletter and Forum and as the Vice President of Technology ... Stewart is my primary advisor on all things related to FTLOP. His time and effort, the website, domain names, Forum software and my own time and effort ... are not free. Asking for a donation, is my preferred way to cover the many costs involved in continuing FOR THE LOVE OF PORT. In fact, I posted a very humble thread here a year ago and asked for feedback/suggestions from the participants of this FORUM, which resulted in my decision to go this route.

Moving forward, I plan to seek out new and better ways to add value to FTLOP Partnership Program membership. A suggestion was made to add .pdf newsletters and we've done that. A "new" marketplace will evolve over the next several months working with retailers in key countries to provide our members with "benefits" that will become obvious soon. The photo uplink area and a few other key ingredients are planned for this year.

That said, one area of each of the 3 facets of FTLOP will become "premium content for members ONLY."
a. The MARKETPLACE - from the FORUM
b. Tasting Notes - from the website
c. Articles - specific articles and TN areas in future Newsletters will only be seen by members, ie. Roy's Port & Madeira Tasting Notes.

I want it to be clear, that those like you who choose NOT to make a donation are still FREE to receive and read the newsletter, access the FORUM and be able to enjoy 95% of the website. I have taken the time to explain this again here, because it is important for you and others to realize that YOU DO have an option. I am not forcing a subscription like other websites and newsletters have/do ... and I will not litter FTLOP with advertising just to generate cash.

I will continue to rely on the generosity of strangers and those I am fortunate to have met, who appreciate and want to support my ongoing efforts (and desire to remain independant) and see the value in doing so. I hope you'll now have a better understanding of my mission and focus and total clarity of the direction in which the FTLOP is evolving and improving.

Respectfully,

Roy

Mike McCune · Post by **Mike McCune** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:18 am

Roy, this site is a steal for nothing and totally worth the contribution for the extras period. Thank you for sharing your value added extras for so long for nothing. I appeciate it and that's why I have wanted to give something back when I could, like the 94 Croft last visit. I'll just have to wait till I'm working again to get back fully on board and find out how you rated the Croft (eventually). Sorry to sound so gripey

. Even for the love of something, I realize it has to work on multiple levels. THANKS AGAIN for your fantastic worldwide contribution to port. (I think 'Porto' itself should chipping in huge for both you and Stewart's work - as it benefits them in a giant way.)

Raj Patil · Post by **Raj Patil** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:11 am

I subscribed on one the first days that the site opened up, Roy your generosity and wealth of information has been a fantastic resource for me.

Stuart, your input that can't be seen real time (many don't realize what a time monster a website can be) has created what is now the FTLOP site.

I can't believe people are complaining about a minimal $40, when they can open up a $50+ bottle of port that provides a couple days enjoyment, whereas FTLOP offers 365 days of entertainment, enjoyment and information. I've been partially disabled for almost a year and my business has suffered a loss for the last few years, but for the hours and hours I spend on FTLOP I couldn't even take my wife out for a single date.

I am an amateur wine consumer only and don't really LOVE many wines like I do port. After all my wine cellar is 99% port and most likely will never change except for the mead (honey wine) that I make myself. I hope that my support helps FTLOP to keep growing and providing invaluable information.

When one has their and their wife's birthday in 1970, marriage in 2000, children born in 2003 and 2005 how can one not believe port wasn't meant to be.

For The Love Of Port