For The Love Of Port

Since the molecular structure of tannins changes during the wine making process during its life as well , could these changes be one of the reasons why a Port closes or enters a dumb phase ?

Well.... I've never seen any perfect answer to this question in any books. One thing is sure, molecules do evolve and change its configuration withing the bottles, tannins are molecules, so yes they are part of the reason but I can't give you more details. Your impression of a wine will be different in time according to its tannins maturity and integration with other components, its part of the equation.

Tx , Fred .
Also , what would have more of an effect on the molecular stucture of tannins : the pumping over of the must or the effect of oxygen while decanting ?

I think Jay is the practicing chemist on this forum. Its an interesting question and with his extra background knowledge, Jay may be able to give us a better response than if I use my extremely rusty graduate chemistry knowledge.

Jay? Are you out there?

Alex

tanker wrote:Tx , Fred .
Also , what would have more of an effect on the molecular stucture of tannins : the pumping over of the must or the effect of oxygen while decanting ?

I have no clue, both situation happen at different time and for different purpose. For VP the most important part should be the crushing of the grapes, this is where you try to extract the most of the components you have in place to make wine.

As FTLOP's official mad scientist, I would say:

"never let science tell you what to expect when it comes to wine"

I personally cannot work out scientifically why the 94's are so forward, with tannins that seem to melt in your mouth, while the 77's have this stubborn core that looks set to spoil the long term prospects of the vintage...

..so the simple answer is:

- suck it and see!

Tom

bridgema wrote:I think Jay is the practicing chemist on this forum. Its an interesting question and with his extra background knowledge, Jay may be able to give us a better response than if I use my extremely rusty graduate chemistry knowledge.

Jay? Are you out there?

Alex

I would think that the pumping over of the must gives you more tannins (better extraction), and that oxidation is more relevent to the flavor change over time, and in decanting.

That being said, the esterification of the tannins into esters is what gives a mature wine the sutbtlety and varried aromatics. Many people think that while tannins are great, it's the acidity of the wine which gives it it's long life. The higher the acidity the more esterified tannins you can end up with in the end and the "finer" the aromas.

But as Tom suggests, to analyze it to much is probably overkill, and may even be a waste of time. The production of perfumes and oderants, which are mostly esters and aldehydes, is aart rather than a skill, learned by apprenticeship rather than a classroom. I could chemically analyze a wne, tell you whats in it, and even reasonably predict gross aroma (hopefully). But to tell you why that particular combination of esters and other things smells so damn good you would be better off talking to a French perfume maker!

Jay

Gentlemen,

Very interesting! Which I suppose links up with that other thread about the quote 'A gift of Nature'.
I suppose in time, mankind will understand such complex issues, but like they say about understanding the human brain(For those who've got one!), we've covered the basics, but are no where near the details.

Alan

Very interesting ideas . Food for thaught . Which brings us , to the obvious if not logical , dare I say temperal question :
If you are alone in the forest , and decant a VP , can you hear the tannins leaving the decanter :?