A Question for the Port Trade

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:29 am

We went from having just 2 trade responses in our first month to 7 trade responses in March, the 2nd month. Not bad, although I did have to coax people with a private (rather than just a group) email. If that is what it takes, I will continue to do so.

We have the question for April already, but I would also like one for May to announce in the next newsletter. Put on your thinking caps (no jokes here please) and let me know if you have any provocative questions that you feel would be beneficial to a wide group of the newsletter readers.

Thank you!

Alan C. · Post by **Alan C.** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:53 am

Roy,

The question I would like the experts to answer would go along the lines of...

Do you think the Port Industry should be more transparent about Declared Vintage Years. Shouldn't there be clear lists of when IVDP members have declared, for all to see, and readily available through your central organisation. Although there is some sympathy for the rough rule of 3 years in a Decade theory, in reality shouldn't it be based on quality, not marketing strategies.

Alan

Al B. · Post by **Al B.** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:09 am

Roy,

Alan's question made me think. There are two different parts to his question that I would like to learn more of:

(1) Do shippers maintain a complete list of all vintages (and single-quinta) that they have declared? Are these available to the public?

(2) When considering a declaration, what factors do shippers take into account? While quality of fruit and juice is clearly a factor, what other influences are there? Why do the multi-site shippers not make Vintage Port (almost) every year, but in varying quantities as the harvest allows - following the model used by the smaller, independent properties?

Alex

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:02 pm

Roy,

It is great to see so many responses this month from different producers. Interesting, and very educational, to see the slight variation in some responses. Please pass on my thanks to them for thier participation and candid answers.

As for the next question...A question about what years they declared (and what years were VP or SQVP) and seeing if that can be made available to the general public (i.e. Us) is one I agree with. Seems to be a question that keeps coming up on a regular basis. It would be great to see of some of the producers would send you a list so it can be posted in a newsletter.

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:51 pm

I am not convinced we would get an entirely honest answer to the second part of Alex's question.

Derek

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:06 am

Can we sum this up as a simple question:

"As Port enthusaists, we are eager for news of Vintage Port declarations.

However, such news is hard to find, and it puzzles and frustrates us when declarations are made without any public announcement.

Even if a wine is to be held for late release, we would very much like to be informed when it is declared.

Is there a reason for this lack of publicity?"

Tom

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:55 am

Tom,

Love the avitar 8)

Derek T. · Post by **Derek T.** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:30 pm

Andy,

That's no Avatar, that's a real picture of Tom

Derek

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:40 pm

Sorry Tom, my bad

Paul_B · Post by **Paul_B** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:50 am

Hi all,

since many of have asked for a published list of VP, I found this link with a PDF file on the AEVP website it covers 1900-2000.

http://tinyurl.com/396gnr

I didn't check it for accuracy

cheers
Paul

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:34 pm

Great link!

- pity it doesn't include all the SQ's though.

No mention of a '58 Croft, but yes, there really was a Sandeman '53!

Will transcribe on to my not-so-little list!

Tom

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:04 pm

very cool, thanks

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:37 am

Any other questions you would like to have answered?

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:56 pm

Roy,

I won't claim this is MY question... Having been going through some of the archives, I stumbled across it in several threads on the forum, usually by a few different folks.

"For Vintage Ports, SQVPs or off-declaration year Vintages declared by some shippers, what would motivate the increasing number of instances of shorter corks that we are seeing? If this is truly the top end of the Port spectrum (Vintage Port) then I would imagine that they, the producers, would want to ensure that their offerings have a cork that will last and protect the wine appropriately for 30-40, even 50 years.

Shorter corks, to us the consumer, indicate that some accountants have taken over and are trying to cut costs and are not thinking about long term harm that may be done to their reputation or brand recognition, should shorter corks end up causing issues down the road."

Of course, feel free to edit to make it make a bit more sense if this ends up being a "chosen question."

Todd

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:56 pm

The shorter corks issue is (as far as I know) confined to the Symington empire.

I also believe that there is a method in the madness - that shorter, tighter corks are a valid alternative to longer looser ones - although time will tell.

It would also be interesting to tackle the Fladgate camp over fill levels, but at this point - in what has so far been a very productive interaction with the trade - it might be prudent to avoid questions that might be percieved as being partisan..

Tom

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:15 am

The May question for the Port Trade came by email, re: the shutting down of Port and going into a dumb phase and when it will re-emerge. I can't think of any solid evidence in writing about this that relates directly to Vintage Port ... so I thought this was the best question I've seen raised.

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:37 am

I can't think of any solid evidence in writing about this that relates directly to Vintage Port

Mayson writes about this, making the analogy with teenagers as I recall..

Tom

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:48 pm

I don't mean to be parsing words.What I meant specifically was analytical or scientific data or more than a mere analogy.

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:18 pm

That is a good question Roy - let's see what the average Port producer has to say about the dumb phase.

I almost wonder if the marketers/bean-counters won't have a bit of influence on this nowadays: "Sure! Drink your VP young! Rather than having all our wonderful product sit in some guys basement for 30+ years, we'd like to sell more and more of it and have everyone drink it young rather than guys in their mid-40s and 50s sitting on stocks of the old stuff and pretty much cutting off their purchases of the newer stuff because they won't be around to drink it. (Unless your name is Tom Archer that is... who intends to top up his cellar every year until he leaves our world."

)

Todd

Tom Archer · Post by **Tom Archer** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:49 pm

Setting aside my personal aspirations, I do wonder what the trade can tell us about this that we don't already know?

Vintage port at first release has it's own loyal following. To my mind this is entirely valid, but also something of an acquired taste. Those who pursue the youthful end of the market seem to accept that young wines 'close down' before re-emerging years later as mature wines.

Others, myself included, have little time for first release wine, and prefer to drink wines that are fully mature.

This is a matter of personal preference.

The trade has an obvious vested interest in maintaining the absurdly inflated price of new wine.

I therefore struggle to understand how we could expect any sort of unbiased enlightenment in response to this question...

Looking at alternative questions, I note that that we have had some interesting discussions about the colour and opacity of VP bottle glass - a very sound question could be raised here.

Then there is the matter of low fill levels on recent VP bottles - is there a technical reason here?

But given that we have just past St Georges Day without a peep on the Sym's websites - or many others for that matter, the question that is pertinant and timely is:

Why the hell are you all so reticent about telling us when you've declared a vintage port??

Tom