Port v Sherry

[Alan C.]

As you regulars will know, I like Port. It is a hobby of mine.
To a much lesser degree I like the occassional Sherry.
I know this is a Port Lovers Site, but the lack of reference to any form of Sherry is remarkable.
My understanding, and I would encourage correction on this, is that Port is the Fortified Red Wine, and is generally sweet.
Sherry is Fortified White wine and is generally dry. I believe the fortification of Sherry stops further fermentation, but isn't that the same of all Ports apart from VP.
Nowadays, there are many variables, like white Port, Sweet Sherry, etc, that blur such generalisations.

So my rambling questions are....

Is there a better explanation of Port and Sherry which deliniates them clearly and distinctly. If you took out the location (Portugal Port/Spain Sherry) aspect is that difference still so distinct.
Where does Maderia fall into all of this? Is it unique because of this heating process I dont fully understand.
I suppose I'm asking for a summary of the differences and whether they do indeed overlap.
If you try to Google this and read a few articles, you'll see why its not clear to the untrained eye.

Alan

[Alex K.]

Oh no - the best Sherry is sweet... and red.

Sherry is from Spain, Port is from Portugal.

We now need Gastronauta.

[Guest]

Good luck on the sherry.

I love sherry and there's even less interest/selection in that than port/madeira in my area. Outside of Lustau and Osbourne, there’s little to choose from. I have had vintage sherry; as few years ago someone gave me a '62 Sherry as a birthday gift and it was outstanding. Soleras are quite popular in as a family owned item in Spain. Sounds like a great idea to take out and pour in the same amount year after year, never depleting the barrel.

[Andy Velebil]

I've only had sherry a small handfull of times. So far I have liked what I've tried, but other than the regular players, they are difficult to find new ones to try.

[Alan C.]

Moses,

So they do Vintage Sherry???

Well I never. So bang goes my theory that one of the differences is that they stop further fermentation at the bottling point!

Oh well, you live and learn.

Alan

[Alex K.]

Soleras are great. The only sherries that I've genuinely enjoyed have been Soleras. You can keep your Harvey's Bristol Cream, or at least give it to your Granny at Christmas. I even use Port in my trifle.

[Tom Archer]

The concept of the Solera - draw a little from a big barrel (or a cascade of barrels) and then top up with new wine - is beautifully simple, and great for ensuring that every bottle, year after year - tastes exactly the same <yawn>

That is also the problem - the current market will only buy alcoholic drinks that are reliably consistant if they are also cheap. That could change of course, but that's the way it is right now!

And Sherry is also the drink of grandparents - my grandparents amongst others - which means that the principal market of 30 years ago is now deceased..

Vintage Sherry does exist, but it is very rarely seen.

Both Sherry and Madeira need to indulge a little re-invention - the Sherry makers need to present a wider range of products that will attract some attention from those who are both wine savvy AND under 80, and the Madeira brigade need to fully exorcise some of their old bad habits and employ some presentational tools so that consumers (and wine critics) have a better understanding of the products.

Tom

[Roy Hersh]

and the Madeira brigade need to fully exorcise some of their old bad habits and employ some presentational tools so that consumers (and wine critics) have a better understanding of the products.

Tom,

Would you please let us know which "old bad habits" you are referring to?
I certainly agree that much more needs to be done by the trade and Instituto do Vinho da Madeira to make their wines better known. I believe the promotional effort on Madeira is better on this website and that of http://www.madeirawineguide.com than the entire Madeira industry or MWI combined.

[Tom Archer]

Would you please let us know which "old bad habits" you are referring to?

How many bottles get marketed as Tinta Negra Mole?

- If you can't trust the grape variety on the label to be accurate, what CAN you trust?

Tom

[Moses Botbol]

Both Sherry and Madeira need to indulge a little re-invention

Bottling sherry in fancy bottles with a epic story.

[Ole Udsen]

Dear all,

I frankly think Sherry is the most underrated of the great, classic, civilized wines of the world. I am a great fan of Port, but (almost) equally in love with Sherry. The range of flavours in Sherry is probably unequalled anywhere else, from bone dry and light (e.g Manzanilla Pasada) to extremely sweet, thick and dark (e.g. Pedro Ximenez), with all stations in between. Granted, there is much confusion in the area, but do not let that scare you away from fantastic experiences with some of the most concentrated and CHEAP wines on Earth. I actually have dry Sherries throughout meals, and Manzanillas are particularly good with seafood. Obvious pairings for dry Sherries are with nibbles (e.g. nuts and savoury snacks) and appetizers. Pedro Ximenez is the best sauce you can pour over vanilla ice cream (but if you consider this sacrilege, even if they do it in Jerez, have a glass of it with the ice cream). Sherry is gaining much ground in the better restaurants of Europe.

Intentionally oxidized dry white wines are much underrated in general, and the ignorant broader public has gone completely off them, to the benefit of those of us who actually seek out these wines and cherish them. We can all thank Parker and his ilk for that, I guess. If you haven't tried the special reserve Antico Gregori Vernaccia di Oristano from Paolo Contini, Sardinia, you have missed out on one of the most concentrated and complex wines in the entire world.

I would want to clear one possible misunderstanding: While Sherry is fortified, the fortification normally does not occur until the wine has fermented to complete dryness. This would be the one great difference between Port and Sherry. Even Pedro Ximenez Sherries are normally allowed to ferment until fermentation stops on its own (they are so sweet and dark because the grapes have been dried to raisins prior to crushing and fermentation). Sweet Sherries other than Pedro Ximenez are normally the result of blending in a proportion of Pedro Ximenez wine. Note that Sherries in Spain are normally fortified to a lesser extent (i.e. lower alcohol) than Sherries destined for export, and thus are often fresher and more aromatic.

[Alan C.]

Ole,

Thanks for that, an interesting read. It sounds like I'm going to have to keep an eye open for

special reserve Antico Gregori Vernaccia di Oristano from Paolo Contini, Sardinia,

Whats the sort of price range and availability. If its complicated, I'll google it all.

Alan

[Moses Botbol]

Dear all,

I frankly think Sherry is the most underrated of the great, classic, civilized wines of the world.

Great post. I wish the selection and store expertise was better when it comes to sherry. I keep going back to same bottles, but should branch out more.

The Lustau Don Nuno is a great sherry for around $20.00 USD.

[Andy Velebil]

Thanks for the info,

I've had a 1971 PX on several occassions and loved it each time. Sherry gets a bad rap in the US, and is still seen as an old person drink. Bad for sales, but good for me as prices stay very low on them.

[Todd Pettinger]

I have never tried Sherry before (well, maybe I have but don't remember it - it would have been a sip out of my old man's glass or maybe my mom's glass when she wasn't looking! )

For a newb like me, what would be a good recommendation of a decent Sherry to try... budget would be pretty much anything under $40US/£20.

Todd

[Andy Velebil]

Todd,
If you can get it in your area, or when you head to the US again, the TORO ALBALA 1971 GRAN RISERVA PX is a great bottle for about $32-35 (US).


Gotta warn you, think motor oil in a bottle. Very thick and sweet, but very good.

[Todd Pettinger]

Gotta warn you, think motor oil in a bottle. Very thick and sweet, but very good.

Thanks Andy...

So, it's exactly like Aussie 'port'???

[Scott Anaya]

I have had the PX 1971 on several occassions as well, since this is my birth year. Yummy stuff indeed. A restaraunt here in Anchorage recommends it with their peanut butter ice cream, as sort of a play on PB&J. Its a pretty good combo.

I also recently opened a 1927 PX which had a bit more going on than the 71 does. The finish just went on and on.....

[Todd Pettinger]

I have had the PX 1971 on several occassions as well, since this is my birth year. Yummy stuff indeed. A restaraunt here in Anchorage recommends it with their peanut butter ice cream, as sort of a play on PB&J. Its a pretty good combo.

I also recently opened a 1927 PX which had a bit more going on than the 71 does. The finish just went on and on.....

Luc is going to smell this thread out right away...

Thanks for the tip Scott - although I imagine the 1927 will be a bit more pricey...

Todd

[Ole Udsen]

Dear all,

A range of questions here. Let me try to answer a couple of them:

For really good Sherries at not too high prices, try to go for Lustau's range of Almacenista Sherries. These are Lustau's top of the range, hand-picked single batches of Sherries, complete with indications of size of batch in the solera and who the almacenista was. Almacenistas are the people who keep stores of Sherries in soleras for sale to the major Sherry companies. Some of the soleras they keep are ancient, and some are of exceedingly high quality. When Lustau comes across a particularly good batch they bottle them with the Almacenista moniker. They are all good, from Finos and Manzanillas to Palo Cortados and Olorosos, and all the way across to the PXes. Only the PXes would be sweet, the rest being bottled as Sherry is, namely bone-dry, even if the Olorosos are quite rich. These are certainly worth a try, and very good value taking the painstaking process, the complexity and the concentration into account. Around US$ 40 per bottle, perhaps more for the PX.

In fact, the standard Finos such as Tio Pepe (my particular favourite), La Ina and La Gitana are excellent if you can buy them at a place where they have high turnover speed in these wines. They have to be fresh, and unfortunately, indications of bottling date are not common. This is definitely an area for improvement among the Sherry producers. Once in bottle, these standard Sherries tend not to improve, and they go somewhat stale after perhaps half a year to a year. The freshness and brightness gets toned down, and then you are missing the point. My best advice would be to go to Spain, where they fortify them less. Go to a tapas place, where they might have them on tap, and taste the range. Drink them cold (out of the fridge not a bad idea.)

As for the Antico Gregorio, this is one of my personal favourites. Some of you might know that Sardinia was under Spanish rule for centuries, and the tradition of making deliberately oxidized wines took firm hold there. They do a range of these, including Malvasia di Bosa (exceedingly rare, normally dry) and Vernaccia di Oristano (not quite so rare, also normally dry). The Vernaccia of Oristano/Sardinia is no relative to the Vernaccia from San Gimignano in Tuscany or Serrapetrona in Marche. Indeed, Vernaccia seems to be a derivative from the Latin word vernacula (from which English has adopted "vernacular"), meaning local or common, and you would thus expect the name to apply to many different grape varieties (there is a Vernatsch in the South Tyrol, for example.) The variety in Sardinia is a white (actually golden) grape that has low yields and very high extract, with aromas of apricots and spices. Contini employs a solera system for the Antico Gregori, but it can be made in single barrels as well. It is picked late, semi-dried, then pressed and fermented. At the end of fermentation it may or may not be fortified, but is at any rate put in ancient barrels with ullage. A flor normally forms. The wine is then aged, normally at least 4 years, but often much longer. If a solera system is employed, no vintage indication can be made, of course. Contini does excellent "normal" riservas with vintage indication, which are robust, highly complex dry wines without fortification. However, the crowning glory is the solera-aged Antico Gregori. I do believe Paolo Contini once told me that the average age of the Antico Gregori is around 80 years. This is an incredible wine, and in my opinion one of the greatest wines on earth. Fortunately for us, this style of wine is not in vogue, and thus relatively cheap. In Europe it would set you back around US$ 50. The wine is a deep amber colour with slightly green highlights at the rim, and the bouquet is explosive, redolent of apricots, exotic wood, smoke, mushrooms, some VA, although it is impossible to describe the sheer impact. The mouth is equally incredible, quite full, dry, but with incredible concentration and presence, and perhaps the longest aftertaste I have ever experienced. Antico Gregori is made in very small volumes every year and can be difficult to get hold of, which is actually the reason why it is so inexpensive: Not enough people can get to taste it to create the sort of demand that would drive up the price.