How can YOU tell if a Vintage Port can age?

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:45 pm

Rather than make this a one post thread, I would prefer to hear what you find in a Port (besides the tannins) that provide you with the notion that the Port in your mouth has the ability to continue to improve with age. Your thoughts?

Bill Crann · Post by **Bill Crann** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:45 pm

"besides the tannins"? Hmm... For me I also consider the mouthfeel which I guess takes into account acidity & glycerin levels. A good VP needs a good mid-palate or it probably won't go anywhere. Can we discuss the length of finish if we ignore the tannins? Acidity does play a roll here too. If a VP or LBV is really fruity & fat with little acidity & short finish, it's a real lightweight short termer. I guess what I'm really considering here is the quality of the finish or the lingering impression the finish leaves as with you. Hopefully it's long with plenty of pleasant pucker power & you think "this is really a nice port".

The level of alcohol integration matters also, but here it's more a matter of "is it old enough to enjoy?" rather than "how long will this one age".
Bill

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:19 am

I think I agree with Bill's assessment above, and will simply add that I generally include that mouthfeel in my personal assessment of a VP. The more full-bodied it is (and this can incorporate all that he states above, but particularly a good balance between the tannins and the acidity) that, to me, is an indicator of the quality of staying power a Port will have.

This is MY almost-newbie impression from the limited number of VPs (especially mature ones) that I have tried.

Todd

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:44 am

Color - If it is still dark or opaque, still thick in the glass

Taste - Still grape-like, sugars and tannins. Still has some body to it.

In Decanter - Takes a lot of time to open up, or improves as it opens rather than open up and go down hill quick

Bottle - Not as much sediment as expected for vintage

TN's from older vintages compared to the port at hand.

Robert O. · Post by **Robert O.** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:15 am

I have no idea how to tell, being new to Port, so I am very curious as to what others have to say.

The ports I've tried that I've suspected would last a long time were along the lines of what Todd had to say: tannic and full bodied.

Bob

Lars F · Post by **Lars F** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:51 am

I've absolutely no idea. I rely on you guys to tell me the potential. My problem is that I've had very few old VP's and none of those have I tried young.

-Lars

Todd Pettinger · Post by **Todd Pettinger** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:23 pm

Moses Botbol wrote:Color - If it is still dark or opaque, still thick in the glass

Great point and one that I came back here to add, but see that you have beat me to it Moses! :)

If the colour is already weak and starting to lighten (turn tawny orange) it is not a good indicator that the Port will last a few more decades.

That being said - I have witnessed dramatic colour changes within hours of a VP being decanted... I had this phenomenon during my second VP ever tried (Noval 2003). Started light purple but went extremely dark black and opaque within the first 2-4 hours.

Todd

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:31 pm

I look at a number of things;

Color: Is it "Squid Ink" as we called it on the last Harvest Tour, or just somewhat dark, medium, or just plain too light. If it don't stain the teeth something is wrong, LOL.

Taste / structure: At this young of a stage, they do tend to show lots of primary plums and dark berries. I look for that large fruit, solid acidity, big tannins, is it mouth filling or somewhat thin. I've also noticed some aren't very integrated at this stage, so I don't worry much if they are a bit out of balanced and ackward at this point. What is important is that the fruit, structure, and finish are there.

Finish: Is it clipped, medium, or does it go on for a long time. Also, does the finish blossom in the back of the throat or just slide down without much fan fare.

Marc J. · Post by **Marc J.** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:19 pm

First of alll, I look at the color of the port. I'd expect a long-termer to be in the dark purple to inky black color range. On the nose I would anticipate some large fruit notes - If a wine is too flowery at this stage chances are it won't last. After taking a sip I would look for some dark fruit, some berries and some dark choclate, but nothing overwhelming - if the wine is fruit bomb it probably won't have the legs to go the distance. If the wine seems just a bit closed that's a good indicator that it may still be some further develoment ahead - just the thing to look for in a longer-term wine.

Eric Ifune · Post by **Eric Ifune** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:16 pm

Color: Is it "Squid Ink" as we called it on the last Harvest Tour, or just somewhat dark, medium, or just plain too light. If it don't stain the teeth something is wrong, LOL.

Black as Egypt's night was how the old Port trade described this I believe.

I also look for grip, another old trade term, a combination of flavor and mouth feel which includes tannins and acidity. Taylors is renouned for it's "grip."

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:10 am

What a great read, the only thing missing was a glass of Port in my hand. Thanks to all participants as I think this is something we can all learn from.

Practing is the fun part!

Jay Powers · Post by **Jay Powers** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:10 pm

A couple of thoughts, although I have not had the benifit of 40 years of following ports develop:

Acidity and tannins: Both should be there, but balanced. Overtly tannic wine (port or otherwise) without a balancing zingy acidity may never come together.

"Closedness": Here I will mimic Moses. For aging potential, a young port (as probably with any wine) will in general mimic it's life cycle over time in the decanter. I would look for examples which improve in the decanter, and for 2003 Port this would probably be over several days, before gently fading away. Even at the end I would expect acidity to dominate oxidation, at least for quite a while.

I think that in general, at a young age, everything that you want in an old port should be present in the young version, except for that compexity and etherality you get with nicely aged examples. Fruit, tannins, acidity, and even bouquet (but only after extended decanting, and will never be as nice as it may be later)....just exaggerated (except for the bouquet)

Jay