For The Love Of Port

I was shopping for a really nice vintage port, like Taylor Fladgate 2011 vintage. The sales person in the large liquor store( Colorado laws ) assured me that it is much too soon to drink a 2011 vintage port?
What are your thoughts on this?

Some people like them young. If you're one of those people, give it a try. I've had some of the Taylor 2011 from a 375, and as I recall I liked it, but nowhere near as much as a 1970 That sales person was giving you conventional wisdom. If you wish to defy this wisdom, there might be better/cheaper options than Taylor. The Total Beverage on Sheridan has been my favorite Colorado source. I bought 2011 Taylor from two different out of state sources.

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I wouldn't drink it now unless you want to know what young port tastes like. Expensive lesson, but then you'll know. I would stick to 10-20-30 year tawny if you're looking to pick something up at liquor store for immediate consumption.

Depends what you're looking for. If the experience of mature Port, then certainly not. But if you wish to experience youthful exuberence and primary fruit then yes. I agree with Eric M. in that if looking for the second, then there are cheaper alternatives. I think the true quality of Taylors comes out with age.

I've had a couple of Vintage 2011s (Niepoort, Sandeman Vau).
I knew they were "too young to drink".
But they were also quite amazing - immensely enjoyable (after some time in the decanter).
I've also had some old vintage - also quite amazing, but in a very different way.
I can buy a Graham's 1985 for the same price as 4 of the 2011 Sandeman Vau (I live in Portugal). It's a tough call. But in my "cellar" I have 17 of the Vau and none of the 1985.
I'm not, personally, a fan of tawny port - I like my port to taste like fortified wine, and old tawny simply doesn't.

I'd humbly suggest that the only way to find out what you like, and don't like, is to sample things - have an old tawny, have a young 2011, try a white, a Colheita, get an old Vintage. If you can find a cheaper 2011 (I'm guessing the Taylor isn't cheap) that will make it a less expensive, but probably equally valid, test.

Roger L. wrote: I'd humbly suggest that the only way to find out what you like, and don't like, is to sample things - have an old tawny, have a young 2011, try a white, a Colheita, get an old Vintage. If you can find a cheaper 2011 (I'm guessing the Taylor isn't cheap) that will make it a less expensive, but probably equally valid, test.

Absolutely agree. Try everything you can as that is the best way to determine what you like and don't like. And the best way to learn about wines from any region you focus on. Often times, for newer stuff anyways, you can get .375ml bottles which are cheaper and will more easily allow you to try a variety of things quicker. I'd also recommend attending any tasting you can find in your area. Though this can be a little problematic with younger VP, as often they are not decanted ahead of time and don't always show their best (a long standing gripe many of us here have).

Andy Velebil wrote:

Roger L. wrote: ...a little problematic with younger VP, as often they are not decanted ahead of time and don't always show their best (a long standing gripe many of us here have).

I don't think the benefits of decanting are stressed enough.
I drink a lot of wine, and I always decant for at least an hour (unless it's fizzy, of course) - but I always try a splash immediately after decanting - in my experience, very rarely does a wine get worse, very often it gets better. I have less experience with port, but the experience I have is that many (non-tawny) ports taste "the same", almost generic, when you pop the cork, some not even very nice - 4 or 5 hours in and you're starting to get the "real" taste. Even after that the taste may well change for another 48 hours.

The 1/2 bottle idea is an excellent one I hadn't considered.

Roger L. wrote: I don't think the benefits of decanting are stressed enough.
I drink a lot of wine, and I always decant for at least an hour (unless it's fizzy, of course)

Why is that "of course". You don't decant Champagne? I do quite often into a cold decanter, very carefully. Even fizzy wine needs some time to open up.

Is the 2011 vintage ready to drink now?

No. This is a vintage for the medium to long haul - think 2050-2060 for peak drinking.

However, if you have a penchant for young VP, look for something cheaper and more approachable - a single quinta VP from 2010 or 2012 perhaps..

Tom Archer wrote:

Is the 2011 vintage ready to drink now?

No. This is a vintage for the medium to long haul - think 2050-2060 for peak drinking.

However, if you have a penchant for young VP, look for something cheaper and more approachable - a single quinta VP from 2010 or 2012 perhaps..

Tom,
Don't you think that decision is really dependent on the person? If they're looking for a really well made, top of the heap, young VP, then right now the 2011 VP's are open for business. If they're looking to save the top of the heap VP's for when it's mature then I agree to look for something from a non-classically declared year, such as 2005 or 2010/2012.

There is nothing wrong with drinking young VP, it's really to each their own (which is most likely different than some here). I think the issue will be at some point the 2011's will most likely shut down and not be drinking well. The problem with that is, we're not really sure then that will be right now. Other than an educated guess based on older VP making techniques. But right now they are still open and drinking well....for now.

Roger L. wrote: I'm not, personally, a fan of tawny port - I like my port to taste like fortified wine, and old tawny simply doesn't.

Roger L. wrote: I drink a lot of wine, and I always decant for at least an hour (unless it's fizzy, of course) - but I always try a splash immediately after decanting - in my experience, very rarely does a wine get worse, very often it gets better. I have less experience with port, but the experience I have is that many (non-tawny) ports taste "the same", almost generic, when you pop the cork, some not even very nice - 4 or 5 hours in and you're starting to get the "real" taste. Even after that the taste may well change for another 48 hours.

Roger, I go along with you on these posts, except I only decant VPs. Everything else is left in its bottle. I am about to eat (roast beef for the main course) and I have two bottles open a Fonte de Loba Reserva 2010 (Douro - open since Friday and only one glass left) and a Piornos Reserva 2011 (Covilhã - bought yesterday and opened last night with only a half glass tasted). I have quite a few Piornos 2010s in the cellar and I wanted to see whether the 2011 is as good. I will make it last another couple of nights. I also have a 5L cask of Pedras Negras to check "value for money". I always have a cask of red and white on the go, and decide on bottles to cellar based on their relative enjoyment compared to the cask wine.

I do not decant Champagne. In fact I never heard of anyone doing it before reading this thread. Why lose the full effect of the wine, which is bound to happen if it is decanted?

Don't you think that decision is really dependent on the person?

Of course - there's nought as queer as folk..

But in general, soft vintages make better players for those who like to drink their VP young, and they are usually cheaper.

look for something from a non-classically declared year, such as 2005 or 2010/2012

2005? - every encounter I've had with that vintage has been as hard as nails - come back in 2100 territory...

Tom Archer wrote:
2005? - every encounter I've had with that vintage has been as hard as nails - come back in 2100 territory...

Hah! But it is a non-classic year. Maybe it shouldn't have been?

Andy Velebil wrote:There is nothing wrong with drinking young VP, it's really to each their own (which is most likely different than some here). I think the issue will be at some point the 2011's will most likely shut down and not be drinking well. The problem with that is, we're not really sure then that will be right now. Other than an educated guess based on older VP making techniques. But right now they are still open and drinking well....for now.

+1

Right now, at least for me, all 2011 VPs are drinking very well. They're simply delicious. I expect that to remain true for at least a couple more years, but as Andy said at some point they're going to start shutting down and at that point should probably be left alone until the butterfly emerges.

If my experience with the 2003s and 2007s is any indication, the 2011s will probably start to shut down in 2017-2018.

Try to do these.
From 2011 i have taylor's ( not Vinhas Velhas), fonseca, niepoort, noval ( not nacional ), real companhia velha and Dow's.
I have bought 0,75cl and half bottles also.
Before open a 0,75cl i open an Half bottle to "tested".

All the best
Rui Brás

R bras wrote:Try to do these.
From 2011 i have taylor's ( not Vinhas Velhas), fonseca, niepoort, noval ( not nacional ), real companhia velha and Dow's.
I have bought 0,75cl and half bottles also.
Before open a 0,75cl i open an Half bottle to "tested".

All the best
Rui Brás

One of the few reasons why I like half bottles.

Andy Velebil wrote:

R bras wrote:Try to do these.
From 2011 i have taylor's ( not Vinhas Velhas), fonseca, niepoort, noval ( not nacional ), real companhia velha and Dow's.
I have bought 0,75cl and half bottles also.
Before open a 0,75cl i open an Half bottle to "tested".

All the best
Rui Brás

One of the few reasons why I like half bottles.

Me to Andy

Some of the 2011 VPs were absolutely fabulous to drink on release, full of youthful and exuberant sweet fruit but with plenty of tannin and acidity. I'm still drinking some of them, but many have changed a lot in the 12 months since being bottled and most are less enjoyable. My choice for drinking right now would be Croft, Dalva (or Presedential), Dow, Ferreira, Noval, Offley, Pintas and Vesuvio. But if someone offered me a glass of any of the other 2011s, I would accept instantly. They are still really nice to drink at the moment - and will still be very enjoyable but will be very different in 20-50 years time.