Advice on first serious bottle of port?

J Jackson · Post by **J Jackson** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:55 pm

Hi everyone!

I've dabbled with reserve rubies, 10 year tawnys, filtered LBVs and a crusted port, but I've just bought my first serious bottle, Taylors 1985 (Picked from a combination of reviews and tasting notes and a special offer). 75cl bottle.

I got myself a proper waiter's style cork screw, a funnel, some unbleached cheesecloth. The only thing I don't have is a decanter, but I have a nice big 1 litre glass bottle to use.

Basically, I was just wondering if anyone has any advice on things to avoid, things to be careful with and how long it should be decanted. I was planning on decanting for about 3-4 hours.

I'm really excited to open this baby!

Bradley Bogdan · Post by **Bradley Bogdan** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:06 pm

Congratulations! You've officially become hooked like the rest of us here

.

A couple thoughts:
-Try a bit right when you open and decant, and then every couple hours or so. You should notice a change over that time that should serve as a nifty learning experience into what one can expect decanting to do for a wine. Your estimate of 3-4 hours is about what I'd personally shoot for with this wine. The Brits on the forum will likely suggest longer, but they seem to have sturdier versions of this wine in Europe for whatever reason.

-Jot something down. Taking a bit of time to think hard enough about the wine to write a few words, be they on the back of a napkin, in a journal, or digitally, forces you to think a bit more deeply and completely about the wine. Even if you've never done it before, it's very easy to do. Don't worry about vocabulary, length etc. Just write something reflecting your thoughts on the wine. As a bonus, you could always share what you write here in the Tasting Notes section.

-Be careful opening the bottle. The cork isn't going to be nearly as forgiving as most bottles you've opened, so don't be afraid to take it slow.

-Use the cheesecloth you've got. Wet it a bit under some water before you begin and you're off to the races. Even if the cork goes all to pieces or your pouring motion isn't flawless, your cheesecloth will collect all the chunky bits, so no harm = no foul.

-Enjoy with people! I've found port to be a fine drink that only gets better when shared. Be it a spouse, family, friends, etc. having another person or two always seems to elevate the experience.

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J Jackson · Post by **J Jackson** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:38 am

Bradley Bogdan wrote:Congratulations! You've officially become hooked like the rest of us here .

A couple thoughts:
-Try a bit right when you open and decant, and then every couple hours or so. You should notice a change over that time that should serve as a nifty learning experience into what one can expect decanting to do for a wine. Your estimate of 3-4 hours is about what I'd personally shoot for with this wine. The Brits on the forum will likely suggest longer, but they seem to have sturdier versions of this wine in Europe for whatever reason.

-Jot something down. Taking a bit of time to think hard enough about the wine to write a few words, be they on the back of a napkin, in a journal, or digitally, forces you to think a bit more deeply and completely about the wine. Even if you've never done it before, it's very easy to do. Don't worry about vocabulary, length etc. Just write something reflecting your thoughts on the wine. As a bonus, you could always share what you write here in the Tasting Notes section.

-Be careful opening the bottle. The cork isn't going to be nearly as forgiving as most bottles you've opened, so don't be afraid to take it slow.

-Use the cheesecloth you've got. Wet it a bit under some water before you begin and you're off to the races. Even if the cork goes all to pieces or your pouring motion isn't flawless, your cheesecloth will collect all the chunky bits, so no harm = no foul.

-Enjoy with people! I've found port to be a fine drink that only gets better when shared. Be it a spouse, family, friends, etc. having another person or two always seems to elevate the experience.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U

Thanks for the tips :) Already ahead of you with the sharing, the bottle will be shared with my Dad and my brother.

BTW, I am a brit

, so looks like I've got the sturdier version, so maybe a little longer in the make shift decanter?

The bottle is in great condition, fill level is well into the neck. It's been relabeled with nice clean new labels, but not re-bottled as the foil wrap has "Taylor Fladgate Vintage Porto" on it, in a different font to the new label and the guarantee label looks old, certainly like it's been in place for almost 30 years :)

I plan on opening it tonight - I will take the time to add my tasting notes to the website.

Cheers!

Post by **Glenn E.** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:43 am

1985 Taylor is an excellent Port to have as a first "serious" bottle! It should be better than mine was - my first "serious" bottle was a 1983 Warre, and I've since learned that I'm not really very fond of Warre's house style for VP.

The advice you've already received here is very good, so I don't have much to add. I would recommend 4-6 hours of decant time, though. It can absolutely handle that much time without any risk, but under decanting it can result in a slightly sharp profile. It isn't a big deal, but it's enough to cost it a point if you do ratings.

For what it's worth, I've had both UK and US bottles of 1985 Taylor blind, and as near as I can tell they're the same. What seems to be different are the other heavy hitters from 1985 - UK bottles of Fonseca and Graham underperform fairly dramatically compared to US bottles. The result being that the 1985 Taylor appears better in the UK relative to its (local) peers.

Enjoy!

Eric Menchen · Post by **Eric Menchen** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:32 am

Bradley Bogdan wrote:-Use the cheesecloth you've got. Wet it a bit under some water before you begin and you're off to the races.

Learn something new everyday. I hadn't thought about that sip or two that my cheesecloth is stealing. And I'm not in that camp that says water is terrible and you must rinse everything with a wine before use.

Bradley Bogdan · Post by **Bradley Bogdan** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:30 pm

Eric Menchen wrote:
Bradley Bogdan wrote:-Use the cheesecloth you've got. Wet it a bit under some water before you begin and you're off to the races.
Learn something new everyday. I hadn't thought about that sip or two that my cheesecloth is stealing. And I'm not in that camp that says water is terrible and you must rinse everything with a wine before use.

I've always thought of it more being a safeguard against any dust or fuzz that might have accumulated on it while in your drawer, cabinet, etc. rather than saving the extra drop. To be honest the times I haven't I've only noticed a tiny thread whisp floating once, so not at all critical, but hey, why not go for perfection? It also seems to help break the surface tension that sometimes happens with finer cloth that really slows down the strain.

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Eric Menchen · Post by **Eric Menchen** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:58 pm

Yeah, the more I think about it, I'm not sure how much savings this will deliver. Maybe it stops a tiny bit of wicking?

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:59 pm

Mr. Jackson,

We are glad to have you join us! [welcome.gif]

aboard!

The variations between UK and US bottlings can be somewhat dramatic at times. I for one, have had some great bottles from friends in the UK and others that left me scratching my head wondering why the VP was such an under-performer compared to other bottles I've experienced. Depends too on whose bottle or which cellar it came from and the bottler as well. Some people with great cellars, do not discriminate as much about the quality of the provenance of what they are buying as long as they get a great price. Others care far more about the storage and bottle's past, compared to what they have to pay for the Port.

The same is true for bottles in the USA. There are plenty of mis-adventures for Vintage Ports that should show beautifully, here in the USA as well. So it is hard to say with any real accuracy that the USA or UK have better bottles of vintage Port. It is all relative and I put more stock in the bottler and last buyer. When an individual shows up to tastings, often with disappointing bottles that are known to be very good or great, usually it is NOT the cellar or seller's fault.

This can happen whether a great cool and damp cellar from the outskirts of London or a temperature controlled cellar in NY or CA or anywhere in between.

While bargain hunting for Port is a great sport as you will read here on this Forum and others, sometimes the old Latin phrase: "Caveat Emptor" really does apply and some wind up getting what they pay for. One last comment on this aspect for your future thoughts when buying Port wine: while you may be able to tell a lot about a bottle from the label, condition of the capsule and cork etc., those of us who've been around the block for some time have learned that sometimes the ugliest looking bottles/labels can deliver the greatest pleasure in the glass. The converse can certainly also be true.

I will now go look in our tasting note section, to see if you've had a chance to write about your experience. Again, thanks for your posts and we hope you will continue to share with us ... or ask any questions you may have.

Cheers!

P.S. Had I caught this in time, I'd likely have recommended a 6 to 8 hour decant for that particular Port ... if the color seemed deep when it was first decanted. If medium ruby, I'd have likely agreed with whoever mentioned 4-6 hours above.

J Jackson · Post by **J Jackson** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:07 am

Well, I opened it last night, with my Dad and brother to share with.

Wow! Seriously, wow. I had no idea wine could taste that good. It was a lovely medium ruby colour and I tasted it every hour, until hour 5, which was the magic number, it suddenly opened up. It was like sipping manna from heaven, I'm hooked!

I'll add tasting notes now.

But now, it's gone

How on earth do you manage to cope when the last drop has gone? Any advice? LOL

So, what bottle next I wonder. So many ports, so many vintages, such a large world to explore. It's so exciting!

Post by **Glenn E.** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:59 am

J Jackson wrote:But now, it's gone How on earth do you manage to cope when the last drop has gone? Any advice? LOL So, what bottle next I wonder. So many ports, so many vintages, such a large world to explore. It's so exciting!

Have a second bottle on hand "just in case."

Having a spare 20-yr old tawny available at all times is a pretty good safety net!

Glad you enjoyed it! Careful, though, it's a very slippery slope!

Bradley Bogdan · Post by **Bradley Bogdan** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:53 pm

Glenn E. wrote:
J Jackson wrote:But now, it's gone How on earth do you manage to cope when the last drop has gone? Any advice? LOL So, what bottle next I wonder. So many ports, so many vintages, such a large world to explore. It's so exciting!
Have a second bottle on hand "just in case." Having a spare 20-yr old tawny available at all times is a pretty good safety net!

Glad you enjoyed it! Careful, though, it's a very slippery slope!

+1

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J Jackson · Post by **J Jackson** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:15 pm

Glenn E. wrote:
J Jackson wrote:But now, it's gone How on earth do you manage to cope when the last drop has gone? Any advice? LOL So, what bottle next I wonder. So many ports, so many vintages, such a large world to explore. It's so exciting!
Have a second bottle on hand "just in case." Having a spare 20-yr old tawny available at all times is a pretty good safety net!

Glad you enjoyed it! Careful, though, it's a very slippery slope!

No kidding, you could bankrupt yourself in no time if you aren't careful!

My everyday port, so to speak, will probably remain Taylor's LBV, I like Taylor's house style and I'm not overly keen on Tawny to be honest.

So considering that I'm liking Taylor's house style and also Sandeman's house style, Sanderman's Founder's Researve was the first port I actually tasted and started this whole thing off!, I also was given a taste of Sandeman Vau 2003 and rather liked it's focus on fruit. So does anyone have recommendations on which brands I may enjoy? I'd be most grateful for any tips where to go from here :)

Thanks everyone for your advice so far, I've been made to feel very welcome here.

Post by **Glenn E.** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:43 pm

Taylor's LBVs are really good. I really enjoyed the 2003 and used it for a couple of years as my cellar defender. I only have one bottle left now, and it's probably long past time to drink it in its prime (Taylor's LBVs are filtered, so don't really improve with age in the bottle), but I just can't bring myself to crack it open.

If you like big, juicy, fruity Ports you really need to give Graham a try. I'm not especially fond of Graham's Six Grapes (I like Taylor's First Estate better), but it's a very solid high-quality ruby reserve. But to me, VP is where the Graham's house style really shines. If you liked that 1985 Taylor, you'd probably love a 1985 Graham.

J Jackson · Post by **J Jackson** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:41 pm

Glenn E. wrote:Taylor's LBVs are really good. I really enjoyed the 2003 and used it for a couple of years as my cellar defender. I only have one bottle left now, and it's probably long past time to drink it in its prime (Taylor's LBVs are filtered, so don't really improve with age in the bottle), but I just can't bring myself to crack it open.

If you like big, juicy, fruity Ports you really need to give Graham a try. I'm not especially fond of Graham's Six Grapes (I like Taylor's First Estate better), but it's a very solid high-quality ruby reserve. But to me, VP is where the Graham's house style really shines. If you liked that 1985 Taylor, you'd probably love a 1985 Graham.

You know, I think you're bang on the money, because the crusted port I bought was Graham's, which I enjoyed very much. That was the last bottle before I went serious and got the 1985 Taylor.

Graham's 1980 is going for a good price and gets good reviews. The reviews I've read said 1980 was a poor vintage on the whole, but Grahams and Taylor came through well, one reviewer referred to Graham's 1980 as very overlooked, because of the stigma of the vintage.

So, next bottle in a month or two will be Graham's 1980 :)

John M. · Post by **John M.** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:56 pm

Welcome! Nice to have you aboard.

1980 Grahams is a fine choice. You are in a good zone trying ports from 1977 to 1985; and you are smart to try as many different ones as possible to build your base of knowledge. If you study the Tasting Notes section and the associated Wine-Searcher link, you can find all you want with enough pre-knowledge to get them at the right price or better. While you are presently focusing on the bigger names, in the future nothing wrong with trying lesser regarded brands and paying much less. For instance, a 1985 Grahams will sell around $80, but a 1985 Churchill around $50. And while Grahams is at the very top of that vintage, the Churchill's is marvelous. Again, this will build your base of knowledge.

If you want to ease your wallet even more, search out the 1985-1995, there are many SQVP (Single Quinta VPs) in that period that can be had for $40 US that will offer great enjoyment.

Bradley Bogdan · Post by **Bradley Bogdan** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:57 pm

Graham's '85 is very nice as well and can also be found for reasonable prices. Crasto LBVs, especially the 2007, can definitely deliver wonderfully at daily drinker prices as well, if you ever want to mix it up from the Taylor's.

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Post by **Roy Hersh** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:53 pm

Great suggestion Bradley. The Crasto LBV's are excellent, year in and year out for the most part with almost no weak spots. The prices are very reasonable too. And while (as Glenn mentioned) the 2003 Taylor LBV was excellent, they are more hit and miss in my opinion.

Eric Menchen · Post by **Eric Menchen** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:11 pm

And if you like the Sandeman Vau, those can be found for a good price. Like the Noval Silval, some retailers try to sell them like first brands, but others will charge a fairer price.

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J Jackson · Post by **J Jackson** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions :)

I get my shopping delivered due to chronic illness, (Back problems, slipped discs, ruptured discs, not nice). I've just found out that my online shopping retailer has Sanderman Vau 2003 at £22, pretty fair price actually. Also, they doing an offer on Taylor's LBV at £11.25, now that's a well priced everyday port

It's tesco.co.uk if anyone in the UK was wondering

For The Love Of Port