Premier Cru warning

[Eric Menchen]

Glad i revisited this thread. I logged into my account at PC and discovered that I somehow forgot that I bought some 2011 Dow "Pre-Arrival" almost two years ago that had never shipped. They looked into it and said they would fulfill my order when the next shipment of Dow arrived in early Jan. Holding my breath.... LOL

So you think that's going to come and you're going to get it? I also bought some 2011 Dow "Pre-Arrival." But I was about to just ask them for credit to buy something else.

[Glenn E.]

Though... the shipping notice from Premier Cru says it weighs 115 lbs!!! (The UPS notice itself says merely 39 lbs... which isn't correct either!)

115 total for three cases sounds about right, with one at 39, the others slightly less.

That is in fact exactly what was going on. 39, 38, 38 were the 3 weights as delivered. :)

[Russ K]

Most of my 2011 ports are all there and shipping, including the 4 Dow I ordered. they are supposed to ship next week. (ten bottles in all)
Unfortunately the two I really want are probably not going to show up at all, if this plays out how many people expect and they go under. Nacionals! FFS.
I am watching their in stock closely which is dwindling by the day. If my box shows up next week, I have a tough decision to make to trade in for any remaining halfway decent in-stock wines or just hope and pray. depressing....

[Roy Hersh]

A friend of mine in Canada, grabbed 3 cases of 1968 Krohn Colheita and just had them delivered. He still has $1000. in outstanding futures that he was not yet able to convert to other purchases in order to get them delivered immediate.

[Edward J]

I had wondered why they are down to just 11 items in stock, not much left in the Port department. They have a shipment of Madeiras due in on the 15th, I wonder.

[Eric Menchen]

Most of my 2011 ports are all there and shipping, including the 4 Dow I ordered. they are supposed to ship next week. (ten bottles in all)

Mine are still not available. Let me know if you actually get those, please.

[Stewart T.]

Glad i revisited this thread. I logged into my account at PC and discovered that I somehow forgot that I bought some 2011 Dow "Pre-Arrival" almost two years ago that had never shipped. They looked into it and said they would fulfill my order when the next shipment of Dow arrived in early Jan. Holding my breath.... LOL

So you think that's going to come and you're going to get it? I also bought some 2011 Dow "Pre-Arrival." But I was about to just ask them for credit to buy something else.

Not holding my breath, but since I just discovered this and raised the issue with them, will give them a chance to make it right. Who knows, maybe they actually come through. If it doesn't come through in early Jan, I will ask them to ship me something else instead or give me a refund.

In any event, I ordered these well before I knew about this pre-arrivals issue, and haven't ordered anything pre-arrival since. And likely never will.

[jeff t.]

I have requested Premier to 2day ship the 15 bottles of in stock Port they are holding for me.Shipping date should be 11/18 and arrival 11/20 in Florida.Hopefully all arrive as expected.

[Glenn E.]

Got all of mine home today. Just for reference on bottling dates:

1964 White Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1968 Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1976 Colheita - Bottled in 2015
30-yr old Tawny - Bottled in 2013

That's very nice on the '76 and good enough on the 30-yr old. The two older Ports are a bit old-in-bottle, though.

[Lisa Stevens]

I am supposed to get mine next Thursday. Hopefully they come through! Three cases is quite a lot!

-Lisa

[Andy Velebil]

Got all of mine home today. Just for reference on bottling dates:

1964 White Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1968 Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1976 Colheita - Bottled in 2015
30-yr old Tawny - Bottled in 2013

That's very nice on the '76 and good enough on the 30-yr old. The two older Ports are a bit old-in-bottle, though.

I don't think they have bottled the White since 2008. I haven't seen any bottled after that AFAIK. TFP hasn't bottled any of the 1968 as I am sure they are waiting for 2018 to roll around so they can continue the string for the turning 50 years old crowd.

Very interesting on the 1976. That means TFP bottled this, how the heck did they get it for such a cheap price?

[Glenn E.]

Got all of mine home today. Just for reference on bottling dates:

1964 White Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1968 Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1976 Colheita - Bottled in 2015
30-yr old Tawny - Bottled in 2013

That's very nice on the '76 and good enough on the 30-yr old. The two older Ports are a bit old-in-bottle, though.

I don't think they have bottled the White since 2008. I haven't seen any bottled after that AFAIK. TFP hasn't bottled any of the 1968 as I am sure they are waiting for 2018 to roll around so they can continue the string for the turning 50 years old crowd.

Very interesting on the 1976. That means TFP bottled this, how the heck did they get it for such a cheap price?

I was a little surprised that they didn't do a 50-yr bottling of the white in 2014. Is it possible that there's none left?

I bet you're right about the 1968. That makes perfect sense. TFP has a nice string going with those, though I feel that they're overpriced. They evidently sell, though, so I guess the trend will continue.

It hadn't occurred to me about the 2015 bottling. They're Krohns, though, so maybe TFP isn't going to rekabel everything? I guess we'll see with the 1968 if they bottle more as you've predicted, but it does beg the question: why bottle more 1976 in 2015 instead of waiting for the 40-yr Anniversary in 2016? Or maybe it's so that it's in the market in time? But then how did Premier Cru get it as such a low price?

Interesting stuff!

[Andy Velebil]

Got all of mine home today. Just for reference on bottling dates:

1964 White Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1968 Colheita - Bottled in 2008
1976 Colheita - Bottled in 2015
30-yr old Tawny - Bottled in 2013

That's very nice on the '76 and good enough on the 30-yr old. The two older Ports are a bit old-in-bottle, though.

I don't think they have bottled the White since 2008. I haven't seen any bottled after that AFAIK. TFP hasn't bottled any of the 1968 as I am sure they are waiting for 2018 to roll around so they can continue the string for the turning 50 years old crowd.

Very interesting on the 1976. That means TFP bottled this, how the heck did they get it for such a cheap price?

I was a little surprised that they didn't do a 50-yr bottling of the white in 2014. Is it possible that there's none left?

I bet you're right about the 1968. That makes perfect sense. TFP has a nice string going with those, though I feel that they're overpriced. They evidently sell, though, so I guess the trend will continue.

It hadn't occurred to me about the 2015 bottling. They're Krohns, though, so maybe TFP isn't going to rekabel everything? I guess we'll see with the 1968 if they bottle more as you've predicted, but it does beg the question: why bottle more 1976 in 2015 instead of waiting for the 40-yr Anniversary in 2016? Or maybe it's so that it's in the market in time? But then how did Premier Cru get it as such a low price?

Interesting stuff!

There is still the 1964 white left, just none has been bottled since the buy out.

From my understanding they are keeping the Krohn's label and not getting rid of it. Well, at least last I heard anyways. Being bottled this year would seem to indicate that as well. But still how the heck did Premier Cru get such a recent bottling at such cheap prices? I could understand if it's an older bottling from an old importer that was simply trying to clear out stocks of a wine they would no longer import, ala what happened to the 2003 Quinta do Noval VP.

As for why wait, there is a far better market for the 50 year old group than the 40 year old group I suppose????

[Lisa Stevens]

I am supposed to get mine next Thursday. Hopefully they come through! Three cases is quite a lot!

-Lisa

They shipped when Premier Cru said they would and arrived today! Not sure if it was because I called them directly on the phone as Roy suggested or not, but that sure got action! Thanks for all the advice folks!

-Lisa

[Tom Archer]

When this story broke it had the whiff of a Ponzi-esque fraud about it, and I feared that their customers would suddenly find the receivers in charge and the stockroom empty.

But it seems the expected rush to retrieve paid for stock has not been met with a locked door and unanswered calls, and that some people at least are getting their bottles delivered.

However, a business model such as this should not have a cash-flow problem, suggesting that there may not have been proper segregation of business and client funds.

There is also a temptation factor when a company is both buying and storing wine for clients - if you get paid by a multitude of clients to buy 100 cases of Lafite, but only buy 90 and pocket the difference, it could be many years before anyone finds out, especially if the cases are not indelibly marked with the owner's details. There may never have been any intention to misbehave, but an unexpected personal crisis may have provoked a 'temporary' measure to liberate funds that then became permanent.

Whatever, the truth will probably out in time. In the meantime, this business has a mountain to climb if it wants to restore client confidence..

[jeff t.]

I received my order of 15 bottles of Krohn's in Florida today.The order was complete and looked to have no problems.
the Colheita's of 1968 and 1978 were bottled in 2007 and 2008;What would be the expected good drinking period before a decline in their quality?

[Tom Archer]

the Colheita's of 1968 and 1978 were bottled in 2007 and 2008;What would be the expected good drinking period before a decline in their quality?

There is no firm answer to that one, and there are two factors at play:

1) Personal taste - some people seem to prefer freshly bottled colheitas whereas others prefer them bottle mellowed. I am firmly in the latter camp, but each to his own..

2) Filtration - if a colheita or indication of age tawny is brutally filtered prior to bottling, it can fall apart within a decade in bottle, but if more kindly treated can last and improve for a very long time.

Four weeks ago I indulged a Taylor 20yr that was bottled in 1972 and was an absolute delight. Unfortunately that does not necessarily mean that a Taylor 20yr bottled today will be in such fine fettle in 2058, as different winemakers have different attitudes to filtration.

The best thing for you to do is to pop a bottle and try to judge where it's going - if it has a few raw edges, tuck the bottles away for a few years to see if time mellows them..

[Andy Velebil]

I received my order of 15 bottles of Krohn's in Florida today.The order was complete and looked to have no problems.
the Colheita's of 1968 and 1978 were bottled in 2007 and 2008;What would be the expected good drinking period before a decline in their quality?

I would not hold them for any further significant time period. IMO Krohn's is not a Colheita for long term aging. So in the next year or so I'd drink them up.

[Glenn E.]

Tom and Andy pretty much covered it.

I'm with Tom in the "let it mellow a bit" camp when it comes to aging Tawny Port in bottle, but we have many people on these forums in the "drink ASAP" camp as well.

I bought 12 of the 1968s and 9 of the 1964 White Colheitas, and I plan to drink all of them in short order. I just posted a TN on one of the 1968s, and while they're excellent they also feel like they're getting a little long in the tooth due to having been bottled in 2008. That bottle was significantly better the 2nd evening (20-ish hours after decanting), so I recommend a nice long decant if you have time. I'm sure they'll be fine for a year or two, but that'll probably be my "house Port" until they're gone.

[Lindsay E.]

Hmmm, this is really interesting timing. I called Premier Cru on Oct. 24th to ask that they ship out the colheita ports I purchased from them over the summer. They told me that they wouldn't be able to get everything together in time for the shipping window on Oct. 27th but that they could ship out the following Tuesday (Nov. 2nd). Nov 2nd came and went without any shipping update from them, so I finally called them back on Friday, Nov 6th and they said there was a "mix-up" and that the wines would be shipped on Tuesday Nov 10th. Tonight I just came across this thread. Yikes! I'll be really soured on wine buying if I get shorted on my order and no refund.

While I was in Atlanta last week I received an email from Premier Cru telling me that my order had not shipped on the date originally promised because they were having "difficulty" locating one of the 3 1976 Krohn's Colheita wines that I had previously ordered and were supposedly being held for shipment. They indicated that the remaining bottle was "missing" and offered to issue me a refund for that bottle. I guess if I were a business owner and I had to choose between fulfilling someone like Glenn's 3 case order versus my piddly 6 bottle order, I'd have probably stiffed me too. However, as long as the check doesn't bounce and I have my money back to use on something else that's okay with me in this particular situation seeing how it much more preferable to Premier Cru going out-of-business and me receiving nothing!

The only problematic thing is that they said they were issuing me a refund for $64.99. I don't recall the Krohn's '76 ever being that cheap when I purchased it this summer during the 40 yr Tawny tasting weekend. Does anyone remember what the sale price of that Krohn was during that weekend? Andy, you were the one that brought the price to our attention? The problem is that I placed that particular order over the phone and can't find an email receipt with the pricing information. I guess I can go back through my credit card statements but it hardly seems worth the time.

I don't know about the rest of you, but for me to feel like I'm "lucky" to be receiving 5 of my 6 previously purchased bottles--and even luckier if the partial refund check that may or may not arrive in the mail doesn't bounce--just flat out sucks! But, shady business people are everywhere and I admit it was naive of me to think that this situation couldn't happen at a brick and mortar wine retailer. Hopefully, I can learn the more important lesson here so I'm not tempted into chasing the bottom line price in the future. If I never make this mistake again and it only cost me one bottle of '76 Krohn, then I WILL consider myself "lucky."