Establishing my port collection.

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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

Glenn E. wrote:1980, 1983, and 1985 are interesting. They're generally considered to be lesser vintages overall, but each contains some very high quality examples. Overall I might rate 1983 as the best of the three, but 1985 has better individual bottlings. (1983 has nothing to compare to the 1985 Fonseca or Graham, for instance.) 1980 has the Dow which is fabulous, but beyond that I think I usually like 1983 over 1980.
So there seems to be a general consensus that the 1985 vintages from Fonseca, Graham and Dow's are well worth the investment and among the best from that year. I think I will also try and pick up a Ferreira, Smith W. and a Gould C. as well.

Which 1983's that you have tasted would you highlight and recommend Glenn?

Thank you all every much for your thoughts and input. I am soaking in as much of your knowledge as possible and appreciate your time and effort.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

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Edward J wrote:This is a subject I can relate to as I've just finished "Phase 1" of establishing our collection. At 58 I'm not really in a position looking for wines that I need to hold for 30 years before they open up. This means I won't be around to see the best 2011's in their full glory, but instead I will see which '63's will last over which '66's. I would have to say that there are certainly less 1966's available in the US vs 1963. But back to the collecting, wants vs. needs. At current consumption of 2 bottles of Port per month we need 24 a year or 480 over the 20 year period I'm planning for. Holidays and special events might require "special" bottles. As I started adding things up my $1,000 budget was no where close to what I ended up spending. After some calculations I spent what we could afford and now have a monthly allowance for new acquisitions and to save for that next must have auction lot. For our cellar defenders search we settled on a LBV port, they are easy to love and right around $20, a great value. For the next level I like the Single Quinta's The 1995's are drinking well and many are around $30, many to explore here at good prices. For special occasions I went more into 1970 which I think is better than 1977 and less risky without all the cork issues but I have a few. For those now coming into their own I went 1985 and a bit of 1983 and 1991. For the future I went heavy into 1994 a great year with many houses producing excellent wines. 2000,2003,2007,2011 are all up for grabs and I add when I find the right price.

So far the cellar is Vintage Port 20% 60's-70's, 20% 1980-1991, 15% 1994, 15% 1997 + , LBV, Single Quinta, 15% , Tawny, Colheita, others 15%
Great post Edward. Fun to read about how you decided to approach your cellar construction.

As age goes, I will conclude that I am lucky enough to start my collection at the age of 34 so I will have sufficient time to see the 2011 and so forth mature and reach their potential.

I have currently not defined a consumption rate of vintage port and I doubt at the current state of things it would be higher than 12 a year since I enjoy drinking Colheitas and Tawnies equally so. Also I do not drink more than 2-3 times per week and often only 1 glass per evening. This could change in the future and I would need to adjust my purchase strategy accordingly. Right now I feel like taking things at a moderate pace and have fun with the planning, finding great offers, making smaller purchase and actually bidding on an auction.

My focus is on buying great value for money vintages and I want to spend the majority of money on new wines from the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2015(If declared) before prices increase. All the while stocking up some vintages from the 80 and 90's that I can start trying out soonish and restock and store once I find my favourites.

Edward did you not buy any 1991, 1992 or 1997?

A topic we haven't talked about here is Colheitas and how they develop in price. Since they theoretically do not gain anything taste-wise after they have been bottled, is there any strategy to buying Colheita from a storage or price perspective? I have heard mentioning of ensuring a not distant bottle date, but is that really a problem? Do you buy them early on and store for years or just buy when you run out or see a good deal?

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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

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Thomas V wrote:
So there seems to be a general consensus that the 1985 vintages from Fonseca, Graham and Dow's are well worth the investment and among the best from that year. I think I will also try and pick up a Ferreira, Smith W. and a Gould C. as well.

Which 1983's that you have tasted would you highlight and recommend Glenn?
With Ferreira, you're better off going for off vintages. They really excel on the Single Quintas Vintages, and can make something year in and out. Ferreira is not a blockbuster style of VP. Elegant and softer in style, but has the ability to age with the best of them. We had a good vertical of Ferreira in Boston several years ago. There should be a picture on this site. My take away is to go for the off years on Ferreira. Sure, 70 and 77 are great, but they did not play into the Ferreira style as an off vintage like '79. As if the big vintages produced anomaly vintages for their style.
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Eric Ifune
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Eric Ifune »

1966 has definitely been gaining in reputation, especially compared to 1963. That said, I'm not as convinced as some people seem to be and am perfectly happy with either. In fact, if I were buying in that age range I would probably simply go with whichever one was cheaper at the time.
This. My main point was that the 1980's are currently undervalued as were the 1966's, especially considering their high quality.
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Eric Menchen »

1983 Smith Woodhouse, Ramos Pinto, then maybe Graham's. Cockburn if you're are in a gambling mood.

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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

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Thomas V wrote: Great post Edward. Fun to read about how you decided to approach your cellar construction.

As age goes, I will conclude that I am lucky enough to start my collection at the age of 34 so I will have sufficient time to see the 2011 and so forth mature and reach their potential.

I have currently not defined a consumption rate of vintage port and I doubt at the current state of things it would be higher than 12 a year since I enjoy drinking Colheitas and Tawnies equally so. Also I do not drink more than 2-3 times per week and often only 1 glass per evening. This could change in the future and I would need to adjust my purchase strategy accordingly. Right now I feel like taking things at a moderate pace and have fun with the planning, finding great offers, making smaller purchase and actually bidding on an auction.

My focus is on buying great value for money vintages and I want to spend the majority of money on new wines from the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2015(If declared) before prices increase. All the while stocking up some vintages from the 80 and 90's that I can start trying out soonish and restock and store once I find my favourites.

Edward did you not buy any 1991, 1992 or 1997?

A topic we haven't talked about here is Colheitas and how they develop in price. Since they theoretically do not gain anything taste-wise after they have been bottled, is there any strategy to buying Colheita from a storage or price perspective? I have heard mentioning of ensuring a not distant bottle date, but is that really a problem? Do you buy them early on and store for years or just buy when you run out or see a good deal?

Cheers
You have the luxury of time, which if we think about it, is all that matters. As with old Colheitas and Vintage Ports you will pay a premium for time. However there has been the "inflation effect" and new releases are now in many cases cost more than most desirable older vintages. We tend to find something to like about most bottles and adding multiples of single wine is more of a "I got a great deal" rather a favorite at this point. When we open up more of what we have we can adjust to our tastes. Right now our cellar is as a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get. I did purchase several 1991 and a few 1997. As mentioned "Phase 1" is complete, meaning I'm at the hard limit of what I can store long term. There is no room at the inn. I keep a few tawny's and Colheitas on hand, but I wait for sales and buy then.
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by John M. »

1983 Dows is quite nice as is Grahams. Had Ramos Pinto once and gave it a nice score

1980 Gould Campbell is very solid--still needs about 9 hours decant time IMHO. Dows is nice, too.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

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Moses Botbol wrote: With Ferreira, you're better off going for off vintages. They really excel on the Single Quintas Vintages, and can make something year in and out. Ferreira is not a blockbuster style of VP. Elegant and softer in style, but has the ability to age with the best of them. We had a good vertical of Ferreira in Boston several years ago. There should be a picture on this site. My take away is to go for the off years on Ferreira. Sure, 70 and 77 are great, but they did not play into the Ferreira style as an off vintage like '79. As if the big vintages produced anomaly vintages for their style.
I learn something new every time I visit this forum. Sounds exciting about Ferreira's SQVT and normally I prefer wine that are more elegant and feminine as opposed to brash and bold flavours.

When you are referring to off years for Ferreira I presume you are talking about SQ. What is the name of the SQ that Ferriera uses for non vintage years?

I still think I will buy a 1985 sample though.
Last edited by Thomas V on Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

Eric Menchen wrote:1983 Smith Woodhouse, Ramos Pinto, then maybe Graham's. Cockburn if you're are in a gambling mood.
Thanks Eric.

My spreadsheet (Yes I am an enginer, can't help myself) has Smith Woodhouse, Ramos Pinto, Graham's and Dow's on the short list for 1983 purchases. I think that will be a very solid start for that vintage.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

John M. wrote:1983 Dows is quite nice as is Grahams. Had Ramos Pinto once and gave it a nice score

1980 Gould Campbell is very solid--still needs about 9 hours decant time IMHO. Dows is nice, too.
Hi John.

I have the Dow's, Graham's and Ramos Pinto on my 1983 buy list.

As for the 1980 list I actually was thinking about buy Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse as I have found a Danish supplier who sells them for 80 USD a piece. The Dow is about 40 more USD, not sure if I will include it in my first purchase of the 1980 vintage.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

Just went to a wine festival yesterday in Aarhus and picked up a few drink now cellar defenders

2 x Krohn 10 YO
1 x Krohn 2004 Colheita

Nothing crazy, but I do like the Krohn 10 YO a fair bit, though I have the Ramos Pinto 10 YO ranked higher.
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Paul Fountain »

I don't think I saw anybody mention the 1985 Warre's VP amongst the other 85s. I had a bottle of that a few weeks ago and was not disappointed. For whatever reason, at least in my market, the Warre's is usually a bit cheaper than the Grahams, Dow, Taylors or Fonseca.

I think I would have been 36 when I started acquiring Vintage Port. That was 5 years ago. At the time, the 2003s were comparatively well priced against other vintages like the 2000, so I picked up quite a few of those with a view to the long term. I also started to pick up some single quinta ports, mostly from 2001, 04 and 05 with the expectation that they are 20 year prospects. In those early days, I'd often pick up a bottle or two of older stuff so I could get a bit of a feel for how the various house styles looked with a bit of age. Once I had a few bottles tucked away I started to look at things with a bit more age and focused more on vintages like 94, 85 and 77. I really don't own much older than 77 at the moment as my budget doesn't stretch that far, but I have a pretty good base now and will probably splurge on the occasional older bottle in the future. Colheitas are a lot harder for me as there is very little that makes it to my shores, so I wish I had more of those.
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Eric Menchen »

I've scored 1985 Warres 91 and 92 points the last times I've had it. The last one was amazingly young and powerful for that year and house. I was surprised. I like Warres in general, but I've liked the other labels listed more for 1985.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

Hey Paul, luckily Colheitas are very accessible for me to purchase from my base in Denmark. Most of the Danish supplies has at least 5+ from the producer that they are distributing, the prices are somewhat of another matter unless on sales.

I've signed up for most of the suppliers news letter so I can be sure to get informed when they have sales on Tawnies, Colheitas, LBV's or even VTs. We are also very lucky that in Denmark we have a facebook group for port and quite a few of the suppliers are very active and do post when they have special offers.

Regarding SQVT it is a variety I have not spent very much time looking into yet as I have been focusing on the on regular VT, LBV and Tawnies. I know about Dow's Bomfin and Ribiera,Taylors Vargellas as well as Quinta do Vesuvio. The remaining producers I have no knowledge about their SQVT except Moses telling me to look into Ferreira's for example the 1979. Any pointers would be great.
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by John Trombley »

Just remember, it's amazing how rapidly VP matures as you get older. Seems like only yesterday....
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Moses Botbol »

If the price is ok, I would go with just about any producer's SQVP. They aren't doing anything different to make it. Price being key, and having access to FTLOP's database in case you are on the fence about a purchase.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

Hey guys.

I am back from vacation and am going to quench my port thirst with some Dalva colheita tonight.

I have been reading loads of Roys newsletters during the travels when we had downtime or transportation. Especially I have been pondering which 2011 bottles I should be snatching up after reading Roys extensive tastings of the 2011 vintage.

Producers like Krohn, Kopke, Quevedo, Alves de Sousa, Vieira De Sousa, Cockburn, Croft, Ferriera, Warre's, Sandeman, Ramos Pinto, Bulas and Offley have all scored very decently and are all under aprox 500 danish kroner. This is roughly half of what producers like Taylor's, Dow's, Fonseca, Noval and Graham's go for in that vintage.

If any of you are up for it could you rank your top 5 or 10 QPR VTs from 2011. I know it is a very young vintage and lots of you have bought and stored and have yet to taste from this year. I will appreciate any input.
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Moses Botbol »

Thomas V wrote:If any of you are up for it could you rank your top 5 or 10 QPR VTs from 2011. I know it is a very young vintage and lots of you have bought and stored and have yet to taste from this year. I will appreciate any input.
If you are looking for deals, buy any recognized of name port from that vintage that has best pricing at the time.
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Thomas V
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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Thomas V »

Moses Botbol wrote:
Thomas V wrote:If any of you are up for it could you rank your top 5 or 10 QPR VTs from 2011. I know it is a very young vintage and lots of you have bought and stored and have yet to taste from this year. I will appreciate any input.
If you are looking for deals, buy any recognized of name port from that vintage that has best pricing at the time.
I realize that 2011 was a stand out year for vintage port throughout the Douro valley and you almost can't go wrong with any shipper. Unfortunately the Danish suppliers does rarely hold sales for 2011 bottles, at least not what I am aware of. I even know some that are contemplating withdrawing 2011 bottles from their website for a 2-3 years and the relaunching it later on when prices are increased further..

All those producers that I mentioned are in a price range that I find very reasonable and thus my question was mostly made in the direction which would you pick up first based on your own experience or information you have read from others you trust.

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Re: Establishing my port collection. Advice needed.

Post by Moses Botbol »

Thomas V wrote: All those producers that I mentioned are in a price range that I find very reasonable and thus my question was mostly made in the direction which would you pick up first based on your own experience or information you have read from others you trust.

Cheers
If answer in just those terms, Taylor, Fonseca, Dow, or Graham. Followed by like Niepoort, Croft, or Warre
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