Establishing my port collection.

[Thomas V]

Kicking back some life in this thread.

A vendor is selling out of his lot and has these wines of interest to me

1977 Graham's - 118 USD
1983 Graham's - 89 USD
1994 Graham's - 99 USD

1977 Warre's - 110 USD
1994 Warre's - 103 USD

I have been looking at TN in the DB for each of these as I have not tasted any of these myself.

My current budget is quite limited currently cause of improvements we are doing to the house. I will also be joining a very large port fare in about 2 weeks and I want some pocket money for any great offers that might pop up at that venue.

So I can afford 1-2 of these bottles mentioned.

I was thinking to grab 1 of each of the 1994. What are your thoughts? What would you recommend?

Cheers

[Glenn E.]

The 1983 Graham is superb. That price is a little high by US standards (it can often be found for $80 here), but might be okay in Denmark.

[Eric Menchen]

For 2011, of the QPR choices, Vieira De Sousa. I've tasted it and it was one of my favorites for that vintage. I haven't tasted Quevedo yet, but am tempted to recommend it. I really liked Quinto do Tedo as well, which you haven't listed, and the U.S. price doesn't put it into a QPR category. But if you can find it cheap, that would be a recommendation as well.

[Moses Botbol]

The 1983 Graham is superb. That price is a little high by US standards (it can often be found for $80 here), but might be okay in Denmark.

Agree with Glenn. I would be all over the '83 for that price and your locale.

[Thomas V]

@Glenn & Moses

Thanks for the input regarding the 83' Graham's. I must say I am surprised neither of you chose a 94'...

@Eric

Great Eric, I have seen that Roy and Rune E.G also has rated the VdS very nicely in the 2011 vintage. You making the same statement just solidifies the high rating. I am so lucky that I will attend a Vieira de Sousa tasting in March in my home town where Luisa Borges will be attending. Firstly I will get a chance to taste the 2011 VT myself and also to purchase it at a great price I believe. But that is just a bonus. The real treat is to meet Luisa

[Thomas V]

I took your advice and ordered 2 x 1983 Graham's vintage. Better 2 so I can taste 1 soonish and still have 1 in stock for further development.

Cheers

[Glenn E.]

@Glenn & Moses

Thanks for the input regarding the 83' Graham's. I must say I am surprised neither of you chose a 94'...

The '94 is also superb, but I can often find it for $80 in the US as well, so the '83 seems to be a better bargain for you. The '94 is also further from being ready to drink.

The '94 Graham was my first realization that Graham is every bit the equal (if not better) than Taylor and Fonseca. I had it and other vintages blind on multiple occasions in a short time span, and I consistently rated Graham in my top 2. Taylor and Fonseca were all over the place, often first but also often middle of the pack. Graham was always, consistently top tier even if 2nd more often than 1st.

[Moses Botbol]

@Glenn & Moses

Thanks for the input regarding the 83' Graham's. I must say I am surprised neither of you chose a 94'...

I have a case + of that vintage, but would not recommend it in your situation. The 1980's vintages of Graham (all of which are good) are similar or less money than the '94 and you can actually drink them now, or decades later. 1994 is far from being ready and not on my radar of a vintage to enjoy any time soon. Last time I had it was like 5-6 years ago and it was shame to open. Keep buying the good 80's stuff while it's still affordable.

If you see a deal on '94 Graham; you should pick some up. Same with any of Symington or TFP ports. Actually, 1994 is similar to 1970 in that everyone made a solid vintage at a minimum and virtually everyone declared it a vintage.

[Thomas V]

I love this forum.

You can get a buying opportunity, that as a novice it hard make an informed decision on. Go to FTLOP and make a little post and within a short period you get quality responses from well informed members that has actual experience with the vintages in question. Awesome.

I agree with you that the 1983' is closer to peaking than the 1994 and it is a valid point it being a decade younger. The question really is as novice building my cellar if I want to invest into vintages that are peaking the within the next 10-15 years (80, 83, 85) or within 15-25 years (91', 92, 94, 97).

Also which vintages of let's say 1980, 1983, 1985, 1991, 1992 and 1994 has the biggest potential?

Maybe this really is not an issue as I will be purchasing port over the next many years with a strategy of being able to enjoy some in the upcoming years as well as store some for further development. The economic aspect is though that the closer a vintage is to peaking the more expensive it will be to acquire (if it has a good reputation). The predicament is then should one purchase loads of bottles that has great potential, but requires 15+ years, to make a good deal. I guess a mix is required and finding that balance between purchasing drinkable (now) bottles and investing into the future on a limited budget is a tricky job while being a novice and having a very minuscule inventory in ones cellar.

Sorry if my thoughts on the matter came out a bit confusing.

[Eric Menchen]

My thought about the 1994s is that there are lots of other good 1994s out there for less, as it was such a great year. I have more 1994 than any other vintage (13.1% of my Port is from that year), and while I have a good number of bottles of Taylor and Fonseca, I have a lot of less pricey names too, like Martinez and Quinto do Vesuvio, that I bought for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of the big names. Could I use another 1994 Graham or Warre in the cellar? Maybe, but I'm not going to jump for them if the price isn't pretty good.

[Moses Botbol]

Does anyone here think they'll out live an '85 Fonseca, Taylor, or Graham?

[Glenn E.]

Does anyone here think they'll out live an '85 Fonseca, Taylor, or Graham?

Taylor (or Dow), maybe. Fonseca or Graham, doubtful.

[Thomas V]

Does anyone here think they'll out live an '85 Fonseca, Taylor, or Graham?

Depends on when you project they will peak?

They are currently 31 years old and I guess (still a novice here) will hit their prime within the next 15-25 years. As I am 34 years, yes I should hope I am alive at age 54 in 2036


On another note I will be going to Copenhagen next week for the Port Faire being held their on Saturday (These are the brands represented http://www.portvinsmessen.dk/00013/ ). Hoping that there will be some nice samples from the 80', 83' and 85' available to taste. I am lucky enough that the Danish Dow's importer is having a small tasting for free on the Friday with Dow's market manager Gustavo Devesas attending. Among other things I will get my first crack at a 85' Dow's vintage and they are also opening a 2012 Senhora Da Ribeira SQ. Looking forward to tasting some Dow. This next week is off the chain port wine-wise, I am stoked!

[Moses Botbol]

Does anyone here think they'll out live an '85 Fonseca, Taylor, or Graham?

Depends on when you project they will peak?

A good vintage can go a 100 years no problem. That's the whole point... Once they peak, they can just sit there for a long time like Ferreira, Graham, Taylor, Dow, Sandeman, Cockburn, Noval, etc... All of the big vintages are still enjoyable when the provenance accompanies the bottle. Some say like 1963 is fading, then I can show you a bottle that take 12 hours in decanter to open up...

[Bradley Bogdan]

Does anyone here think they'll out live an '85 Fonseca, Taylor, or Graham?

Yup, because if I don't, it'll be over 100 and virtually impossible to outlive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkz. U

[Eric Menchen]

On another note I will be going to Copenhagen next week for the Port Faire being held their on Saturday (These are the brands represented http://www.portvinsmessen.dk/00013/ ).

That's really a nice showing with a lot of smaller labels that are hard to find on this side of the pond.

For my retirement planning, which includes both financial and oenological resources, I assume I will live to be 90. I don't expect to enjoy any 1985 Taylor in the late 2050s. I might enjoy a 1985 Fonseca, but I've also already had one that wasn't as outstanding as most in the last year or so. Provenance is everything. So close to my death, I might have a few 1985s around for fun, but I'll more likely be drinking my 1994 Taylor & Fonseca, 1994 and 1997 Noval, and my 2011s, with a few strong 2000s and 2003s thrown in.

[Thomas V]

For 2011, of the QPR choices, Vieira De Sousa. I've tasted it and it was one of my favorites for that vintage. I haven't tasted Quevedo yet, but am tempted to recommend it. I really liked Quinto do Tedo as well, which you haven't listed, and the U.S. price doesn't put it into a QPR category. But if you can find it cheap, that would be a recommendation as well.

I know that the 2011 Vieira De Sousa is in the line-up for the tasting later in March and the price is fairly decent at around 65 USD listed on the website. Might be a sharper event price even.

Unfortunately the line-up for the Quevedo tasting this Thursday does not include the 2011 vintage. I hope Oscar will pull this ace out of his sleeve later in the evening. I have had most of the bottles on this list before but the 40YO and the 2011 LBV as well as the 2007 VT will be new experiences for me and exciting.

Here is the line-up

[Thomas V]

Last week was the most fast paced port wine experience in my life so far and I wanted to share some impressions and titbits from the 3 tastings I attended during Thursday, Friday and Saturday and some pictures.

Quevedo
Thursday kicked of with an exclusive tasting of Quevedo. Hosting the event was the Danish importer and Oscar Quevedo, who was in Denmark for the large port fair being held on Saturday in Roskilde.

The night took a great turn immediately when Oscar decided to scrap the power point presentation and just go a capella. This worked out great and Oscar had so much knowledge and kept the audience engaged with dialogue and questions. We hit a small snag when the chef accidentally locked the door to the kitchen where the Rosé port was in the fridge (no big loss). The rest of the evening Oscar guided us through the history of both port, the Douro valley and the Quevedo family and winery.

I learned new information such as:

* Douro means "of gold" which gave naming to the river cause of the rain causing landslides and the excess soil colouring the river golden/brown
* Vintage port is less than 1% of the yield per year
* There is roughly 71 producers of port in the Douro valley
* 5 of those 71 producers handle more than 80% of the total production out of the Douro valley
* The yield per vine is roughly 1.5 kg
* The word "Tawny" comes from the Tawny Owl in the UK

After the tasting was over I was lucky enough that Oscar had time to hang out a bit and talk with him. Was great to get to met him, he is extremely friendly and out going person that I instantly took a liking to. I asked him some different things and I had one silly question that I went ahead and asked him anyway. It was as follows: "If you could pick any Quinta in the Douro valley that you could include in your production portfolio which would you chose? (You cannot pick Noval's Nacional nor Taylor's Vargellas). Oscars answer was (He wanted to pick Nacional) he would go for Quinta de Vesuvio as he though it would compliment his existing properties the best.

The wines tasted was (The TN's have been added to the FTLOP DB):

Quevedo White - 88 pts
Quevedo Rosé - 85 pts
Quevedo Tawny Reserve - 89 pts
Quevedo 1996 Colheita - 89 pts
Quevedo 20Yo Tawny - 90+ pts (QPR)
Quevedo 40YO Tawny - 91+ pts
Quevedo 2011 LBV - 91 pts (WOTN)
Quevedo Crusted Port - 87 pts
Quevedo 2007 Vintage 90 pts

Dow's

After a days hard work on the island on which Copenhagen is placed (I am on the mainland) I had gotten a spot at a free tasting of Dow's at the Danish importer The Winecompany. Again they had a participant from Portugal attending the tasting in this case Market Manger Gustavo Devesas. This tasting was bit more informal than the Quevedo at their storage facility. But simple is good and initially we were only around 8 people participating (more joined later).

Gustavo made a really nice presentation of Dow's and the different varieties he had lined up for us to taste. For a free tasting it was a really splendid line-up in my humble opinion. I had not tasted any of the ports previously so I was in for a treat. The stand outs for me were the SQ and the 85' though the Crusted had a splendid nose. I must get my hand on one of those 85' for a horizontal I am planning in my mind.

Dow's 1999 Colheita 89 pts
Dow's 2011 Late Bottle Vintage - 90 pts
Dow's Crusted Port - 89 pts
Dow's 2012 Single Quinta Senhora da Ribiera 90-91 pts
Dow's 1985 Vintage -92+ pts

Titbits from the Dow's tasting:

* Dow's sell more LBV than any other style
* The older a tawny gets the more difficult it is to pair with food, cause of the acid loss - according to Gustavo
* The crust in Crusted Port refers to the layer of sediment /crust that the remaining port in the barrels which was drunk during the travels by boat from Portugal to Southampton. This is also refereed to as the "Vintage port of the poor people" as this was the remains that the hard workers got to drink.
* A magnum bottle has the best storage potential of all bottle size according to Gustavo.
* Tawny style port is a social port where focus in on the social interaction and not on the actual port
* The decanter always passes clockwise
* If someone at a tasting isn't paying attention and passing the decanter around and you are out of port, you should be polite and say to the room: "Do you know the bishop of Norwich?" Apparently the bishop of Norwich was very good a hugging the decanter
* The top 3 consuming countries of vintage port are (regardless of number of inhabitants): UK, US and Denmark
* Dow's will from now on only produce a LBV in declared vintage years.
* The 2011 LBV opening was a Denmark / World premier and only 10 cases has been bottled so far.


Port Fair

This is the second year running that the Port Fair aka Portvinmessen has taken place in Roskilde. Behind it is some Danish guys that some of you might know. Peter Skov, Anders Christensen, Ivan Madsen and more. Here is the website so you can see the different stands and producers. http://www.portvinsmessen.dk/00008/

It was my first year participating and I had persuaded my girlfriends to join me with the promise of her getting some shopping time in Copenhagen as she does not like port. There was 2 seatings of each 2 hours in which I participated in the latter one. It was quite hectic as each seating had around 350 people in it., but I had made a plan from the start on which tables I had to visit and after that I just winged it. I tried to make very quick taste notes for each sample I had but it was difficult and I didn't want to lose focus on the other people around me. Here are my points from the session:

2003 Gould Campbell Vintage - 90 pts
1985 Gould Campbell Vintage - 91+ pts
1985 SWC Vintage - 92 pts superb nose
1980 SWC Vintage - 91+ pts
1977 Quarles Harris Vintage - 89 pts - loads of spirit and some cork sediment
2013 Quinta do Vesuvio - 93+ pts (WOTN)
2013 Dow's SQ Senhora da Ribiera - 90 pts (Better than the 2012)
2004 Dow's Quinta do Bomfin - 91 pts
1975 Dow's Vintage 91+ pts
2011 Ferriera Vintage 93 pts
Bulas 20 YO - 90 pts
Bulas 30 YO - 92+ pts
Bulas 40 YO - 91 pts
DR 40 YO - 91 pts
DR 10 YO - 89 pts
1985 Presidental Colheita (Da Silva) - 87 pts
Javali 2013 Vintage - 89 pts
Javali 30 YO - 91+ pts
Vasques de Cavalho 30 YO - 90 pts
Vasques de Cavalho 2013 Vintage - 89 pts
1985 Taylor's Vintage - 90 pts
1998 Weise & Krohn Colheita - 90 pts
Devesa 20 YO White - 90+ pts
Devesa 20 YO - 90 pts

Fair overview


Stand with only vintage port - what is not to like. My favourite here was SWC 1985


Hands down the best port on the fair


My first crack at a magnum


Cool looking bottles from Vasques de Carvalho - the juice matches the looks


Not something you see every day - didnt taste it though (extra fee)


Must add this great vintage to my cellar


The family from Javali - Sooon they will be able to make a 40YO Tawny. Humble and friendly people


Their 2013 vintage


Devesa had one of the most popular stands. They had both regular and white tawnies. They were the one selling the most on the day.


A lot of 2013 vintages, here from Pocas


Note: Being at tastings and drinking while taking notes, listing and conversing with fellow attendees I might have heard or misunderstood something.

This was a great experience which will be hard to top, but visiting Porto and Douro in the fall will probably do the trick.

Cheers Thomas

[Eric Menchen]

Thanks so much for the recap and photos. I'm thinking a trip to Denmark is in order one of these years.

[Thomas V]

My pleasure.

Sounds good Eric, please give notice a head of time so we could plan a tasting.