Establishing my port collection.

[Allan Engelsted Laurents]

Great review Thomas. I attended the same fair. I had three main goals:
Any White port
LBV's from 2011
30 YO

But after a short time, I got confused

The rest is history. My Best experience was a 1977 Cask sample from Van Zeller.

Again, thanks Thomas for taking time to post 'to our Friends overseas'.

Allan

[Thomas V]

So for the 10YO Tawny tasting we are holding in my new port club we are ordering from G.N as it is roughly 90 USD cheaper than ordering from different suppliers in Denmark and with shipping. The shipping cost is zero cause of the amount we are ordering so I am thinking I will order two bottles for myself and get it shipped together with the rest. This time I am focusing on 80, 83 and 85, so I can drink it sooner rather than later.

Currently I have in my cellar in those years:

2 x 85' SWC
2 x 83' Graham's

If you could pick 2 bottles of the following, which would you chose and why? They cost roughly the same. I am leaning towards a 80' Warre's and a 85' Ferreira but would love some thoughts and input.

1985

Ferriera
Dow's
Warre's

1983

Ramos Pinto
Cockburn

1980

Warre's
Sandeman

[Glenn E.]

'83 Ramos Pinto is one of the best of that vintage. Very much a high water mark for Ramos Pinto, and consistently surprises people with its quality.

'85 Dow is also very good. Not on par with Fonseca or Graham in that vintage, but solidly in that next tier down.

So those are the two that I'd get.

[Bradley Bogdan]

'83 Ramos Pinto is one of the best of that vintage. Very much a high water mark for Ramos Pinto, and consistently surprises people with its quality.

'85 Dow is also very good. Not on par with Fonseca or Graham in that vintage, but solidly in that next tier down.

So those are the two that I'd get.

Those would be my choices as well.

'85 Ferreira was a revelation for me at the '85 horizontal last year, and fortunately I had recently scooped 5 up at a very attractive price. It's scored 92-94 for me each time, and while it doesn't have the same style structure and power of the two Glenn picked, it is very attractive in the "feminine" sense of wine.

'83 Cockburn has probably the highest ceiling of any of those bottles, but alas has a VERY high rate of TCA. I've been fortunate enough to be 2-1 on good showings, but it's usually priced at a premium rather than a discount compared to other wines from the decade, and therefore can be an expensive gamble.

I can't offer anything on the '80s as I haven't had them.


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[Thomas V]

'83 Ramos Pinto is one of the best of that vintage. Very much a high water mark for Ramos Pinto, and consistently surprises people with its quality.

'85 Dow is also very good. Not on par with Fonseca or Graham in that vintage, but solidly in that next tier down.

Awesome stuff Glenn. I will pick the R.P as one of the 2, as I want to taste vintages from other vendors besides Dow's and Graham's. The Fonseca will have to wait a little as it is almost twice the price. I am in a phase were I want to taste some different things and that means buying more stuff in the 2nd or 3rd tier (which is still really really good port) at a cheaper price.

'85 Ferreira was a revelation for me at the '85 horizontal last year, and fortunately I had recently scooped 5 up at a very attractive price. It's scored 92-94 for me each time, and while it doesn't have the same style structure and power of the two Glenn picked, it is very attractive in the "feminine" sense of wine.

'83 Cockburn has probably the highest ceiling of any of those bottles, but alas has a VERY high rate of TCA. I've been fortunate enough to be 2-1 on good showings, but it's usually priced at a premium rather than a discount compared to other wines from the decade, and therefore can be an expensive gamble.

Thanks for the input Bradley.

I think that the Ferreira will be my 2nd choice. I think I will enjoy their style of port making (Does it resemble the Vesuvio style, which I find very elegant?) and I am not in a gambling mood right now to go for the Cockburn. Really happy you have enjoyed the Ferreira on multiple occasions.

This is exciting!

[Moses Botbol]

I'd stay away from '83 Cockburn for risk of TCA. '85 Ferreira is pretty good, but you have to like their style of vintage port. '85 Dow is one of their drier vintages and '85 Warre is solid. I like 1980 Sandeman; it's one of their last good vintages until '94.

If you can find 1980 or 1983 Ferreira, I'd go for those instead of '85.

[Thomas V]

I have placed my order just a few moments ago.

1 x 1985 Ferreira
1 x 1983 Ramos Pinto

And as a bonus for a friend and me to share

1 x 1985 Graham's

Really look forward to tasting these bottles in great company.

[Moses Botbol]

I have placed my order just a few moments ago.

1 x 1985 Ferreira
1 x 1983 Ramos Pinto
1 x 1985 Graham's

Really look forward to tasting these bottles in great company.

That's a good line up. I was going to take a picture of all three as a primer for you, but my '85 Graham's are in my parents' cellar; not near by.

[Thomas V]

I recently talked to Peter Skov, whom some of you might know from the PHT last year or else where. He sold me 2 1983' Graham's and kindly mentioned while handing them over that I should drink them within 5 years as they were at their peak. I was wondering how the state of things are with the 1985' which is just 2 years older. Stronger vintage year should allow the 85' age for at least 10-15 more years. What has your impressions been of the maturity of 85'? Some houses should be drunk now and others kept..

[Moses Botbol]

What has your impressions been of the maturity of 85'? Some houses should be drunk now and others kept..

The good 85's I would be in no hurry to drink. Fonseca has got 50+ years life on it. Graham, Dow, GC, RP all have 20+. They are all drink or hold for me, except the Fonseca which I would hold if I can show enough restraint... The question is how do you like your VP to show?

[Glenn E.]

I recently talked to Peter Skov, whom some of you might know from the PHT last year or else where. He sold me 2 1983' Graham's and kindly mentioned while handing them over that I should drink them within 5 years as they were at their peak. I was wondering how the state of things are with the 1985' which is just 2 years older. Stronger vintage year should allow the 85' age for at least 10-15 more years. What has your impressions been of the maturity of 85'? Some houses should be drunk now and others kept..

Much will depend on your definition of "at peak." Personally, I don't think that the 1983 Graham is at its peak, and based on my last experiences with it and the 1985 Graham I think there's some non-zero chance that the 1983 might ultimately out-perform the 1985. It isn't as good right now, but I feel like there's still improvement going on in the 1983 that might ultimately trump the 1985.

But to answer your question, the state of the vintage at the top tier of 1985 is excellent. They're all reasonably approachable (though the Fonseca is a bit of a beast) but will all continue to improve for at least another 10 years. Some (e.g. Fonseca, Gould Campbell, possibly Graham) much longer than that.

Below the top 5-8 names, though, 1985 is pretty mundane. Those Ports are already mature and should be on death row because, at least to me, they don't feel like they're going to hold at their plateau for very long. They can be very good and in some cases borderline excellent, but they're done so drink up.

In contrast, 1983 lacks a true star like 1985 Fonseca or Graham, but has a broader next step down and those all still feel like they have life left in them. I believe that ultimately, when considered as a whole, 1983 will be viewed as superior to 1985. 1985 has a couple of superior Ports, but 1983 has more overall quality.

[Thomas V]

@Moses I haven't had enough vintage nor time to know what my preference is.

@Glenn Very interesting thoughts about the 83' vs 85' vintages. I am so lucky that I have the 2 x 83' and now 1 x 85' Graham's where the 85' will be consumed within the year as it was bought for that purpose. The 83's I will probably stay off for a while and instead try either the 85' Ferreira or the 83' R.P. As you didn't mention the 80' vintage I guess it does not hold up against the 2 older vintages we are discussing here? It would be interesting to see your inventory lists of 80', 83' and 85' vintages for reference.

Today I managed to scoop up 2 bottles of 2011 Offley Boa Vista at 30 USD a piece. Very reasonable I think as there was a 25% discount on the regular list price.

[Glenn E.]

@Glenn Very interesting thoughts about the 83' vs 85' vintages. I am so lucky that I have the 2 x 83' and now 1 x 85' Graham's where the 85' will be consumed within the year as it was bought for that purpose. The 83's I will probably stay off for a while and instead try either the 85' Ferreira or the 83' R.P. As you didn't mention the 80' vintage I guess it does not hold up against the 2 older vintages we are discussing here? It would be interesting to see your inventory lists of 80', 83' and 85' vintages for reference.

I'd be interested in seeing my inventory of '80, '83, and '85 too! I'm desperately out of date and need to do a full inventory to catch up.

That said, I own more 1985 than 1983, and more 1983 than 1980. That's because my revelation about 1983 came fairly recently and my cellar is already bursting at the seams. Plus, neither 1980 nor 1983 currently has anything that can compare to F85 or G85, and I own a couple of cases of each of those. I will probably eventually wish that I had more G83 and RP83, but right now there's just no room.

If you can find a 1980 Dow it's a beast, but otherwise 1980 is pretty mundane for me. Some very good Ports, but nothing that I can recall (besides the Dow) that's really going to impress over the long term. There are some good buys for current drinking, though, so don't completely write them off without experimenting.

[Moses Botbol]

If you can find a 1980 Dow it's a beast, but otherwise 1980 is pretty mundane for me. Some very good Ports, but nothing that I can recall (besides the Dow) that's really going to impress over the long term.

Taylor, Sandeman, and Graham are also good ones to look for in this vintage.

[Eric Menchen]

So you've already ordered, but I'll still throw in my thoughts. I've tasted most of these, and you can find my TNs in the database or forum. I'll put some summary information here.

1985
Ferriera - 93 points, a big surprise to me from a blind tasting.
Dow's - 90 points, not a surprise as I wasn't all that impressed in earlier tastings.
Warre's - 92 points. The score wasn't a surprise, but how powerful this was was. This can really go for many many more years.

1983
Ramos Pinto - 93 points, 3rd favorite in a blind tasting of 1983s.
Cockburn - 91 points when not corked, but I've had corked bottles too. Like others have suggested, this is probably best avoided unless the price is right.

1980
Dow - 94 points. Almost as good as the Warres. This one wasn't in your original list, but I've added in since others have mentioned it.
Warre's - 95 points! No one else gave this one any love, but it was my favorite at a tasting with four 1977 SFE wines and four 1980s (Dow, Graham, Smith Woodhouse, Warres for both years).
Sandeman - The one I haven't tasted, so I can't argue this one.

As for 1983 vs. 1985, I too am one of those that really likes 1983 and thinks it deserves more praise than it gets. Side-by-side there are a bunch of different labels that I preferred the 1983 of.

[Eric Menchen]

p.s. I have a bit of 1985 (21 bottles) and 1983 (16 bottles), but only one bottle of 1980, which seems very hard to find in my parts. I wish I could easily get more of that vintage.

[Thomas V]

Great bunch of posts. Will get back to you, atm on my way out.

Just got the pacel from G.N and unfortunately 3 bottles were missing (2 x 10yo R.P and 1 x R.P 1983 VT) and the Fonseca 10yo cases and bottles were soaked in port. So something has gone wrong in the delivery process and I think those bottles were broken and the parcel later repacked.

Now I have to go through a complain process with GN to get the missing bottles replaced. I think also some compensation in order as the total order was on more than 600 USD. Any thoughts?

[Moses Botbol]

I had a 3L of '77 Taylor break in shipping and the vendor, not the shipper reimbursed me. I also had UPS steal wine out of my packages and the vendor also reimbursed me.

[Thomas V]

I had a 3L of '77 Taylor break in shipping and the vendor, not the shipper reimbursed me. I also had UPS steal wine out of my packages and the vendor also reimbursed me.

The same will be the case here. I am not even going to try and contact the shipper. They have such a bad rep. I already talked to GN and they asked me to send a mail with details and photos. So I have done that and am awaiting their response. Just a shame it wasn't packed better in the first place (unless the shipper manhandled the packed, in which case this could not be avoided).

[Thomas V]

85' vintage

I have tasted the Dow's which I scored 92+ points in March.
I own a Grahams, Ferreira and two SWC.
The Fonseca is on my wish list, but no rush as it seems of the bunch it needs the most time before entering its prime drinking period. Want to get my hands on Warre's as well.

83' vintage

Haven't tasted anything yet from this year and have Ramos Pinto on its way from Porto.
I really want to try the G.C also, but it seems almost impossible to find any.

80's

Rally hooked on getting a Warre's and a Sandeman for the cellar. On my wish list :)

------------------

I have been thinking a bit about the vintages from the 90's and the 00'. As I do not own any from these years and I will be looking to close that gap over the next few years. I saw a good post where Andy for one did go through his perception about the 91', 92, 94 and 97 vintages.

However it would be awesome if anyone could share some more thoughts about how you rankg the vintage years with in the 90's and likewise for the 00's. Perhaps also across the 2 decades on potential.

From what I have read I would rank them like this? Do you agree?

94 > 92 > 97 > 91

03 > 00 > 07

Which are the stand outs besides the 07 Dow's and the 94 Fonseca, that every cellar should have a few of tucked away?