It is about time ...

[Roy Hersh]

Napa Valley, the Confraria and Wines of Origin ... has its affect on four producers:

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/loca ... 26E6B9A75F

[Andy Velebil]

Let me add more since Roy didn't do it justice by really saying what happened

Four Napa producers are removing "port" from the name of their fortified wines.

[Edward J]

I don't know much about how protectionism works and why it's needed but this seems to me to be a case of misplaced outrage. Port wine sales have been declining and this is going to help how? I'm leaning towards stop making common names in use for over a century "protected" . I'm sure they exist, but every bottle of Porto I have is printed using the same word, Porto, not port. Just what is Porto? A City? A district? How do you know that your Porto wine has grapes from Porto? They could indeed be from the Vila Real district(and others), not Porto at all. If you disagree, don't worry, no one important is going to listen to me, I just see it as fighting a useless battle under false pretenses.

In truth, Europe’s approach to GI protection mainly serves to privilege traditional producers at the expense of consumer welfare and economic growth. The connection between quality and origin is often exaggerated by European policymakers, and the level of protection GIs enjoy prevents the flow of accurate information to consumers. Moreover, by incentivizing traditional production patterns through communal rights, Europe’s GI system directly reduces both innovation and competition in their own market.

https://www.cato.org/publications/polic ... food-names

[Glenn E.]

I don't know much about how protectionism works and why it's needed but this seems to me to be a case of misplaced outrage. Port wine sales have been declining and this is going to help how? I'm leaning towards stop making common names in use for over a century "protected" . I'm sure they exist, but every bottle of Porto I have is printed using the same word, Porto, not port. Just what is Porto? A City? A district? How do you know that your Porto wine has grapes from Porto? They could indeed be from the Vila Real district(and others), not Porto at all. If you disagree, don't worry, no one important is going to listen to me, I just see it as fighting a useless battle under false pretenses.

Technically it has never been legal according to international law to label a wine "Port" or "Porto" unless it comes from the Douro valley, so the "common names" to which you refer are and always have been illegal. The problem was that Portugal has been a poor country for a long time and so never bothered to enforce the PDO (Protected Designation of Origin, more commonly known as AOC - Appellation d’Origine Contrôlée - due to the French influence). The influx of cash upon joining the EU allowed many good things for the country, one of which has been this push to assert control over the PDO. Portugal has had this PDO since 1756, by the way, so it's not like it's new.

Regulation of the PDO is performed by Portugal, just as regulation for Champagne is performed by France and regulation for Chianti is performed by Italy. All of the grapes used to make Port come from within the PDO, which is not the city of Porto but rather the Douro valley. There are ancient stone markers that can still be found scattered throughout the Douro valley that once marked the limits of the PDO, though of course now we have Google Maps so it's much easier.

Porto is the Portuguese word for the wine. "Port" is the anglicized word. Originally US law only regulated the word Porto, which was a failing of US law and does not diminish the PDO's right to the word Port.

[Roy Hersh]

The Center For Wine Origins helped to fight this battle some years ago, after lobbying for laws that also would protect the moniker: Champagne (which was abused, everywhere!).

And while Edward may think this was all a waste of time and money when it comes to Port wine, ask any Port producer and they are very grateful for the new protection, as is the President of the IVDP and all that are involved in that agency.

[Glenn E.]

One difficulty in the US is that there's no good, legal, generic name for Port. The good generic name (note the lack of the word "legal") is fortified wine, but a holdover from Prohibition is that it is still to this day illegal to use the word "fortified" on a wine label.

So while there was certainly resistance, it wasn't that difficult to convince wineries to stop using "Champagne" on their labels because they could just switch to "sparkling wine" as the generic term. There's just no good alternative for wineries when it comes to Port.

[Edward J]

I don't think it's a waste of time and money because this is all about money and the right to sell low end Port exclusively. Rather than out-compete the competition with superior products and marketing they use the government, which to me makes them look like bullies. No one is confused that a "port" from California (or elsewhere) is from Portugal. If anything it's the vast amount of differing Port products from Portugal that confuses the consumer more than anything, as I have witnessed several times at the market. Education is key not laws.

Now then, Mr. Woodbridge over at Layer Cake is all upset because he can not call his 100% Cabernet fortified with Cabernet brandy, Port. http://layercakeanadventureinwine.blogs ... -acre.html I don't worry too much about it because Hundred Acre Fortification sells between $300-500 a bottle. The thing is I agree with the state on this as well as with the decision of the four wineries not to call their fortified Cabernets, Zinfindels, Merlot and Syrahs, Port. Why? Because it's not port. Port is a blend of traditional Portuguese grape varieties. These other 'ports" are not, they are something completely different. Again instead of a law, use education. If you want to have a DOP for Porto, then why not Porto do Porto and promote wines with the IDVP label?

Why even comment on this? Not to be argumentative, but to have an honest discussion in order to see differing view points. I have no doubt the Portuguese producers prefer zero competition. However on the other side of the equation are producers who are making fortified wines in accordance to tradtional methods. Some were Portuguese immigrants, others were paying homage to Porto. For a winery like Heitz cellars, making their "Ink Grade" Port is a labor of love not economics. The land in the Napa Valley is far more valuable than using it to grow the Varietals: Touriga Nacional, Tinta Roriz, Sauzao, Tinta Cao, Tinta Bairrada, Tinta Madeira, Tinta Amarela and Bastardo for his wines.

St. Amant is another winery located in Lodi. They originated with vineyards in Amador and grow the traditional Porto varieties. In fact when it came time to replant after a phyloxera outbreak in the 1990's they doubled down and now produce unfortified wines from Portuguese varieties. They have even started to age their own Tawny Ports and I have to say they are darn good. I think they deserve the title California Port.

It has been said that great vintage port could be made in other places and even more say it can't be done. My guess is that it isn't being done because there is no money in it. Porto do Porto has a tremendous price advantage over California producers as global economics dictate. So any ways sorry if I'm

[Glenn E.]

No one is confused that a "port" from California (or elsewhere) is from Portugal.

Absolutely not true. Or perhaps more correctly, they have no idea that it is supposed to come from Portugal. I have "introduced" many people to real Port who told me flat-out that they'd already tried Port and didn't like it. Every single conversation went something like this:

Me: Want to try some Port?
Them: I've tried Port and I don't like it.
Me: Have you tried real Port, or just some US-made knock-off?
Them: Huh? What do you mean?
Me: Real port must come from Portugal. Anything else isn't really Port.
Them: Really? I didn't know that.

After they've tried real Port they've always liked it. I then follow up with a more detailed explanation about the lack of enforcement of the PDO, and I often get "oh, you mean like Champagne?" as a response.

The lack of enforcement has absolutely hurt the Port trade. There are some good fortified wines made in the style of Port, but by far the majority of them are terrible. The good ones are few and far between. People who try a California Port, or a Texas Port (yes, they exist), or a Washington Port as their first experience are likely to never try a real Port because "I tried Port and I didn't like it."

[Andy Velebil]

Glenn is spot on. In America there is a huge misunderstanding about Port. Most people here associate it with relatively cheap and not very good domestically made "port." That's a problem. Forcing non-Portuguese companies to stop using the term is needed or the real brands suffer, as Glenn mentioned.

Why even comment on this? Not to be argumentative, but to have an honest discussion in order to see differing view points. I have no doubt the Portuguese producers prefer zero competition. However on the other side of the equation are producers who are making fortified wines in accordance to tradtional methods. Some were Portuguese immigrants, others were paying homage to Porto. For a winery like Heitz cellars, making their "Ink Grade" Port is a labor of love not economics. The land in the Napa Valley is far more valuable than using it to grow the Varietals: Touriga Nacional, Tinta Roriz, Sauzao, Tinta Cao, Tinta Bairrada, Tinta Madeira, Tinta Amarela and Bastardo for his wines.

No producer is making something where they are losing money on it year after year. A good way to go out of business. And keep in mind most of these older companies bought land in Napa and the surrounding areas back when land was darn near free and there was plenty of it to buy. That land is long ago paid off. Unlike today where it's expensive and impossible to find large lots of usable open land for sale.

[Edward J]

Let's just say my experiences and views are different and I'll leave it at that.

[Andy Velebil]

Let's just say my experiences and views are different and I'll leave it at that.

And that's the best part, discussing those differences. Always a learning experience IMO.


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[Eric Ifune]

I agree with protecting the name and reputation of Port. One issue I have, however, is the IVDP copyrighting the term "Vintage" with Portuguese wines. Sort of confuses the terminology for Madeira in particular.

[Andy Velebil]

I agree with protecting the name and reputation of Port. One issue I have, however, is the IVDP copyrighting the term "Vintage" with Portuguese wines. Sort of confuses the terminology for Madeira in particular.

Who drinks Madeira?

[Eric Ifune]

[Roy Hersh]

Eric,

He gets it, Andy's just being difficult.

[Roy Hersh]

As for Edward J., come on man, you have a different point of view ... explain it, don't just pick up your toys from the sandbox and go home.

I have had the St. Amant and dozens of others from Virginia, MO, NYS, TX, WA, OR and all throughout CA. I have judged on panels where some of these have even won the entire competition with over 2500 wines competing, (Ficklin 10 year old Tawny comes to mind). In CA alone, I've tried 15-20 producers in the past 3 decades, at least five or six while I was in So. Africa, many more from Australia ... etc. So while Napa has been just one of many violators around the world, the NVVA "got it" and agreed with the Wines of Origin.

There are still many CA "Port" labels that are grandfathered into old laws and as you intimated without going there, it is the big money of Gallo and their ilk that used their financial might to ply the citizens of the ghettos in America with dirt cheap plonk that they bottled as Port, back in the days following the lifting of Prohibition. They were able to addict these adults to this crap, carried in paper bags with pint-sized bottles in their pockets. So I get what you are saying without saying it, but what's wrong with a name change for the category here in the USA? I remember when the conversation about Meritage was all the rage a few decades ago.

Porto do Porto is not something that Portugal will ever do and the IVDP would never consider it. First of all, Port wine comes from the Douro, not Porto. The Port lodges are in Gaia today, and have been, for a few centuries, not Porto or even Oporto. And why should the originators of the beverage we all love, be forced to change their name while the copy cats get to steal it? The grapes are all grown in the amazing Douro Valley and that is 1.5-3 hours away from the city. Your suggestion would be like calling Napa Cabernet, Cabernet of San Francisco.

Please clarify your point. We are willing to hear you out and have a civil discussion, whether we agree or not.

[Eric Menchen]

My conversations weren't exactly like Glenn's, but I've had many with people that didn't like "port" because they thought what they drank was Port when it wasn't.

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[Bert VD]

well there's loads of brewery's (especially in the US) that make beers they're allowed to name "Belgian style" but not "Belgian". It has not much of a meaning as there are many different styles of Belgian beer...
Here's a pretty decent explanation about it, by an American brewery... http://dageraadbrewing.com/story/what-i ... tyle-beer/


so why not "Port style wine"?

[Eric Menchen]

well there's loads of brewery's (especially in the US) that make beers they're allowed to name "Belgian style" but not "Belgian". It has not much of a meaning as there are many different styles of Belgian beer...
Here's a pretty decent explanation about it, by an American brewery... http://dageraadbrewing.com/story/what-i ... tyle-beer/
so why not "Port style wine"?

But you can't label your Belgian-style beer "Trappist" unless you are one of the actual Trappist breweries. It too is a protected name.

[Glenn E.]

so why not "Port style wine"?

Why not "methode Champenoise" like they used briefly for sparkling wines in the US?

Answer: because it isn't legal. As much as people in the industry would like it to be, Port is not a style of wine. It is a specific wine made in the Port PDO. "Fortified" is the style of wine, but due to archaic laws in the US that date back to Prohibition, the word "fortified" isn't allowed on the label of an alcoholic beverage.

Laws don't always make complete sense for everyone. Champagne, and "methode Champenoise", are reserved by the Champagne AOC. Just like Port is reserved for the Port PDO.

"Belgian" isn't a PDO, thus "Belgian-style beer" isn't reserved. (But, like Eric said, "Trappist" is reserved.) It's pretty much that simple.

One more example... Meritage. What's that, you ask? It's a Bordeaux-style wine made in the US. But they can't call it "Bordeaux-style" because Bordeaux is an AOC. So in this case they came up with their own name for it and it has been very successful.

Okay one more... Prosecco. Aka Italian Champagne.

The list goes on and on and on.