For The Love Of Port

This might be behind a paywall; I'm not sure. It's just another article about the recent crackdown on interstate shipping.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/dini ... -laws.html

GRRRRRR!

Arrggh. Colorado used to be on the "good" list, but not on the list there in the NYT article.

(Aside: NYT allows you to read so many articles per month for free. More than that requires a subscription.)

I wonder if my favorite out of state vendors will still send to me? Guess I'll find out on the next offer of interest.

Eric Menchen wrote:Arrggh. Colorado used to be on the "good" list, but not on the list there in the NYT article.

WA as well. In WA's case, I believe we are a reciprocal state which means we allow shipping if you do, and also has the caveat that if both states are reciprocal then it's allowed.

Apparently that's no longer sufficient.

Edit: I'm wrong. Just found this:

Direct Sales and Shipment to Consumers

This law allows out-of-state wineries to ship directly to Washington consumers, and sets some new rules for Washington wineries. Washington will no longer be a reciprocity state, but rather a permit state. This means any US winery licensed as a winery in their home state, and licensed with the Federal Government under the Tobacco and Trade Bureau (TTB) can obtain a wine shipper permit to ship to Washington consumers. The fee for a wine shipper permit is $100, unless the winery is already licensed with Washington as a Certificate of Approval for wine (COA). If so, the COA will need a “no fee” endorsement from Washington to ship to consumers.

Colorado used to be reciprocity state too, then they were a "any shipping here is fine state," and now I don't know what we are. I'm glad the cellar is pretty well stocked with VPs. But I still need to replenish my regular red wines and tawnies as I drink them.

We are pushing for legislation in our state to allow wine shipments. I have contacted my local state official and he made it sound like he is on board. We have a one party system in MA, and liquor lobby has the purse strings in them. Unfortunate in this circumstance, but great when there's no sales tax and the country's lowest prices... Still, where's the liberty? We should be able to ship & receive wine anywhere.

Strange thing about liberty. It evaporates if it isn't fought for. That's its cost and I think will always be. So even after maybe 10 years of struggle for freeing the grapes, it's been very easy for vested interests to just pull a few levers and things are little or no better than they ever were.

Anybody ever hear of Daniel Posner and Free the Grapes? That'll show you the extent of the problem, especially for those of us who beg our freedom as consumers against people who line the force of the law up against us. If you're still on one of the handful of ship-to states, how long will it be before you're not? I'm now unable to purchase from a San Francisco outfit that I did the most business with this year!

As an outsider looking in, I have to say that I find your state based shipping laws archaic and somewhat extraordinary for a country that has the largest free world economy.
I'm thankful that we don't have any of that in Australia, and I can happily have wine shipped from, say Western Australia to Melbourne without giving it a thought. Then again, we only have 6 states.

Paul Fountain wrote:As an outsider looking in, I have to say that I find your state based shipping laws archaic and somewhat extraordinary for a country that has the largest free world economy.
I'm thankful that we don't have any of that in Australia, and I can happily have wine shipped from, say Western Australia to Melbourne without giving it a thought. Then again, we only have 6 states.

I won't get political but I will simply say there is still a very large conservative faction here that still thinks alcohol is the devil's water, among other things. Prohibition ended a long time ago but many of the laws that came about from it still remain.

I have ordered a bunch of wine this month, all from out of state and every one of these retailers told me that they have no issues with selling and shipping wines here to WA State.

I wonder what will happen shipping from consumer to consumer? I did that last month with zero issue, to a friend on Long Island, NY and another in Illinois.

Roy Hersh wrote:I have ordered a bunch of wine this month, all from out of state and every one of these retailers told me that they have no issues with selling and shipping wines here to WA State.

I wonder what will happen shipping from consumer to consumer? I did that last month with zero issue, to a friend on Long Island, NY and another in Illinois.

It's a crap shoot for me. Some retailers shopped shipping all together. Some will ship to most states, others ship to only around 6. Shipping consumer to consumer has always been illegal, but if the box is unmarked and it doesn't 'glug', you can generally get away with it.

Mike K. wrote:It's a crap shoot for me.

Funny, I had UPS deliver 6 bottles the other day and he made a joke about the wine. I have always had to sign for the shipments. I work from home, so no big deal for me. FedEx ground is more common than UPS. I receive at about 2 wine shipments a month during "the season". It's odd who will ship here and who will not. I don't know it's legal or not; I am not asking questions. The places that ship to me; I will remain their faithful customer.

I just place orders when I see a deal and if the order goes through, it goes through... How the wine gets here I am not concerned.

Mike K. wrote:

Roy Hersh wrote:I have ordered a bunch of wine this month, all from out of state and every one of these retailers told me that they have no issues with selling and shipping wines here to WA State.

I wonder what will happen shipping from consumer to consumer? I did that last month with zero issue, to a friend on Long Island, NY and another in Illinois.

It's a crap shoot for me. Some retailers shopped shipping all together. Some will ship to most states, others ship to only around 6. Shipping consumer to consumer has always been illegal, but if the box is unmarked and it doesn't 'glug', you can generally get away with it.

How do you prevent bottles from going "glug"?

Svein CE wrote:

Mike K. wrote: It's a crap shoot for me. Some retailers shopped shipping all together. Some will ship to most states, others ship to only around 6. Shipping consumer to consumer has always been illegal, but if the box is unmarked and it doesn't 'glug', you can generally get away with it.

How do you prevent bottles from going "glug"?

Packing them in a box so that they stand upright hides most of it. Many folks also pack something noisy in the box to hide the liquid glug behind something noisier, like a box of mac-n-cheese mix (small dry noodles)

Certain shape bottles glug more than others. If you've got a really noisy shipment, folks often label it as olive oil or hot sauce :)

Mike K. wrote:

Svein CE wrote:

Mike K. wrote: It's a crap shoot for me. Some retailers shopped shipping all together. Some will ship to most states, others ship to only around 6. Shipping consumer to consumer has always been illegal, but if the box is unmarked and it doesn't 'glug', you can generally get away with it.

How do you prevent bottles from going "glug"?

Packing them in a box so that they stand upright hides most of it. Many folks also pack something noisy in the box to hide the liquid glug behind something noisier, like a box of mac-n-cheese mix (small dry noodles)

Certain shape bottles glug more than others. If you've got a really noisy shipment, folks often label it as olive oil or hot sauce :)

I've seen people put those very easily recognizable wine shipper boxes into another larger box to hide the fact it's a wine shipper box.

Roy Hersh wrote:I have ordered a bunch of wine this month, all from out of state and every one of these retailers told me that they have no issues with selling and shipping wines here to WA State.

WA is now a "permit" state, so if the online retailer has purchased the $100 permit then they're golden. I think most of the large online retailers are getting around to this, so the problem (at least for us here in WA) seems to be diminishing. For example I just ordered from RWC and they had zero issue with my WA shipping address.

I wonder what will happen shipping from consumer to consumer? I did that last month with zero issue, to a friend on Long Island, NY and another in Illinois.

I somewhat recently had a package rejected that I was trying to ship consumer-to-consumer. I'd dropped it off pre-packaged and labeled, and FedEx actually called me and demanded that I come take it back or they were going to turn it over to security and there would be expensive handling fees.

There was nothing about the package other than its size and shape that said "alcohol" yet they firmly believed that's what it was and refused to ship it.

Glenn E. wrote: I somewhat recently had a package rejected that I was trying to ship consumer-to-consumer. I'd dropped it off pre-packaged and labeled, and FedEx actually called me and demanded that I come take it back or they were going to turn it over to security and there would be expensive handling fees.

There was nothing about the package other than its size and shape that said "alcohol" yet they firmly believed that's what it was and refused to ship it.

Damn, that sucks. I usually do this via UPS. In my area the folks at FedEx are somewhat militant. They shake the boxes and if it makes noise they demand to open it up and have a look. So now I drop off at UPS.

Once it gets past the folks at drop off and out to the trucks I think you're OK though. A friend at FedEx says they are mostly looking for drug shipments and don't care about the booze.

Packaging stores that contract with Fed/UPS never ask the question or pressure customers when they ship wine privately. For now, (and in recent years) they are the new easy.

New News:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2017/12 ... e-shipping