Need Fonseca vertical decant advise / suggestions

[Thomas V]

So I am hosting a nice Fonseca vertical in 14 days time and I would like your input and advice for the optimal decant times for these lovely bottles. For sure we want them to show at their best.

The will be served openly and at the same time in one flight of the 10 bottles. We will be using the IVDP glass.

Fonseca VPs

1963
1966
1970
1977
1980
1983
1985
1992
1994
1997

Thanks and cheers.

[Andy Velebil]

So I am hosting a nice Fonseca vertical in 14 days time and I would like your input and advice for the optimal decant times for these lovely bottles. For sure we want them to show at their best.

The will be served openly and at the same time in one flight of the 10 bottles. We will be using the IVDP glass.

Fonseca VPs

1963
1966
1970
1977
1980
1983
1985
1992
1994
1997

Thanks and cheers.

Will you serve the older first or younger? I ask as the will affect decant times for them.


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[Thomas V]

So I am hosting a nice Fonseca vertical in 14 days time and I would like your input and advice for the optimal decant times for these lovely bottles. For sure we want them to show at their best.

The will be served openly and at the same time in one flight of the 10 bottles. We will be using the IVDP glass.

Fonseca VPs

1963
1966
1970
1977
1980
1983
1985
1992
1994
1997

Thanks and cheers.

Will you serve the older first or younger? I ask as the will affect decant times for them.

The will be served openly and at the same time in one flight of the 10 bottles.

[Glenn E.]

1963 - 4-6 hours
1966 - 6-8 hours
1970 - 8 hours
1977 - 8 hours
1980 - 4 hours
1983 - 4 hours
1985 - 12 hours
1992 - 4-6 hours
1994 - 12 hours
1997 - 6-8 hours

Even though you're serving in a single flight, you'll want to adjust decant times based on the order that they'll be served in that single flight. Most people will take at least 2 hours to get through 10 Ports unless it's a very strict protocol, so make sure to account for that extra time when deciding when to decant each bottle.

[Andy Velebil]

Opps!

I'd generally agree with Glenn with some exceptions;

1980: 1-2 hours (this is not a good vintage for them, be warned)
1992: 10-12 hours
1997: 10-12 hours

[Scheiny S]

This is so neat. Why do the decant times vary rather than getting steadily shorter or longer?

How did it go? Or is it happening this weekend?

[Andy Velebil]

This is so neat. Why do the decant times vary rather than getting steadily shorter or longer?

How did it go? Or is it happening this weekend?

Because it depends on how that Port did in that particular year. 1980 was a horrible year for Fonseca VP. The only, non-flawed, bottle of Fonseca I've ever poured down the drain. So a long decant won't help it and will probably make it worse. However, say 1985 Fonseca which is probably the best of the vintage, is still a baby and needs a long decant to its best.

[Zak Romaszko]

Hi Glenn,

How on earth did you come up with these; I presume its on the strength of the vintages?
I'm new to Port but eager to learn :)

1963 - 4-6 hours
1966 - 6-8 hours
1970 - 8 hours
1977 - 8 hours
1980 - 4 hours
1983 - 4 hours
1985 - 12 hours
1992 - 4-6 hours
1994 - 12 hours
1997 - 6-8 hours

Even though you're serving in a single flight, you'll want to adjust decant times based on the order that they'll be served in that single flight. Most people will take at least 2 hours to get through 10 Ports unless it's a very strict protocol, so make sure to account for that extra time when deciding when to decant each bottle.

[Glenn E.]

How on earth did you come up with these; I presume its on the strength of the vintages?
I'm new to Port but eager to learn :)

1963 - 4-6 hours
1966 - 6-8 hours
1970 - 8 hours
1977 - 8 hours
1980 - 4 hours
1983 - 4 hours
1985 - 12 hours
1992 - 4-6 hours
1994 - 12 hours
1997 - 6-8 hours

Even though you're serving in a single flight, you'll want to adjust decant times based on the order that they'll be served in that single flight. Most people will take at least 2 hours to get through 10 Ports unless it's a very strict protocol, so make sure to account for that extra time when deciding when to decant each bottle.

Mostly from experience. I've had all of those Fonsecas and we talk about decant times a lot, so over time you start to get a pretty good feel for what's needed.

Andy's right about the 1992, I'm not sure what I was thinking on that one. Both it and the Taylor from the same vintage can be real beasts.

I've had better luck than Andy with the 1980. It's not their best Port by a long shot, but it can be very pleasant if you get a good bottle. With good bottles I've found that it fills out a little bit with some (but not a lot) time in the decanter. 4 hours is probably the high side, but served next to the 1983 at 4 hours it makes for an interesting comparison.

With the 1997 - which can still be in a bit of a funk at only 21 years old - it will really depend on your bottle. It might need 10 hours like Andy suggests, or it might still be young and fruity and only need 6. For unpredictable bottles I tend to prefer shorter decants because you can always let the bottle/glass sit for a while if it needs more time, but there's no going back once it's been in the decanter for 10 hours.

[Thomas V]

How did it go? Or is it happening this weekend?

The tasting was held last Saturday. Great day in Aarhus with sunny weather, might have been a just to bit warm for the port in the glasses.

It was held at a friends place and he has a temp controlled shed so he did the decanting for me after my instructions.

8 hour decants for these because he was up at 9 and they were served at 17. My instruction decant times in parenthesis
1963 (8)
1966 (8)
1970 (8)
1977 (8)
1985 (12)
1992 (12)
1994 (12)
1997 (12)

1980 (2) was given 2 hours and 1983 (4) 4 hours

Before the main event I had done a port quiz and served 3 blind ports while they were doing it in teams of 4.

Blackett 10 Anos
Niepoort 10 Anos
Fonseca 20 Anos btl in the 80's

The Quiz Questions if you want to give it a go.

1. What 2016 top declaring house has produced most 0.75 cl bottle in the vintage?
Bonus for right number

2. Which house has the most 100p wines from Parker?
Bonus for the years

3. Which house has exited the longest?
Bonus for the estb. year

4. Name the 5 blue elite grapes that are mostly used in the port production?

5. Name the wine maker that blended the 1953 Fonseca VP?

6. Name Fonseca's 3 Quintas?

7. What is the port wine brotherhood led by the Chanceler called?
Bonus for the name of the current Chanceler

8. How many years does a Colheita (min 7 years) minimum require on a demijohn before bottled before it can be called a Garrafeira

9. How many hectares if the Quinta do Noval Nacional vineyard?

10. What is the middle zone in the Douro valley called? (Which many of the pristine quintas are located in)

The vertical

No faulty bottles but some complained about the 94 so it was replaced by another called 94B here on out.

I wont go into notes of every single bottle but I will add a few remarks.

- The overall quality of the Fonseca vintage ports are outstanding. I think second to none I previously have encounter over the span of the my short port career 3-4 years.
- I found liquorish in almost all of these ports. Hallmark?
- The 63 (94p) and 66(97p) are very nice and mature and drinking well, a little heat on especially the 63. The 66 still has room to improve had an amazing mouth feel.
- The 70(98p) and 77(99p) were the best wines for me on the night. Outstanding both but the 77 edged it out with a nice herbaceous feel of mint and eucalyptus. Will keep chopping for 20+ years.
- The 80(92p) and 83(89p) showed admirably, but was out shined plain and simple.
- The 85(96p) and 92(97p) both had excellent showings. So much concentration in the 85 it is stupendous. It will best them all in 30 years time. The 92 was drinking so well. Almost as good as the 92 Taylor's I had the winter. Bobbly with raspberry and just a strong character.
The 94B(97p) and 97(95p) were big and bold and I must say for the price tag the 97 was the QPR of the night. Excellent purchase and I am again reminded to buy more of this little brother vintage. (Dow's, Graham's, Niepoort and Fonseca) spring to mind.


Results of the tasting from the Group. Seems everyone were enjoying them selves (16 guests total)


After tasting all the wines, we had some nice tapas with some Linhares Avesso Vinho Verde, Portal 2007 VP, Niepoort 2013 LBV and 1994 Warre's LBV. Ohh and a guest also brought a Rozes Very Old Tawny to finish off while we watched the final minutes of the Champions League final.

Pretty spectacular night and I can't wait for episode 2 in the spring of 2019 where we will try out the Guimaraens for roughly the same period! Already have more than 10 of them in the cellar.

[Al B.]

And what were the answers to the quiz questions? (Nice quiz, by the way.)

[Glenn E.]

The Quiz Questions if you want to give it a go.

1. What 2016 top declaring house has produced most 0.75 cl bottle in the vintage?
Bonus for right number

2. Which house has the most 100p wines from Parker?
Bonus for the years

3. Which house has exited the longest?
Bonus for the estb. year

4. Name the 5 blue elite grapes that are mostly used in the port production?

5. Name the wine maker that blended the 1953 Fonseca VP?

6. Name Fonseca's 3 Quintas?

7. What is the port wine brotherhood led by the Chanceler called?
Bonus for the name of the current Chanceler

8. How many years does a Colheita (min 7 years) minimum require on a demijohn before bottled before it can be called a Garrafeira

9. How many hectares if the Quinta do Noval Nacional vineyard?

10. What is the middle zone in the Douro valley called? (Which many of the pristine quintas are located in)

Well since it's been 2 months, I'll give it a go and then maybe others will guess as well.

1. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Rozes, but I have no idea how many bottles.

2. I would guess Quinta do Noval, primarily due to Nacional. '31, '63, '94, and '11?

3. Depends on who you believe. Officially it's Kopke in 1638, but Adrian Bridge claims to have documentation proving that Croft was established in 1588. (You can read about it on croftport.com.)

4. This is trickier than it might seem, because there are 7-8 that are sometimes mentioned as being in the top 5. Touriga Nacional, Touriga Franca, Tinta Roriz, Tinta Cao, and Tinta Francisca would be my guess. I've also heard Tinta Amarela, Tinta Barroca, and Sousao mentioned on this list before.

5. No idea!

6. Quinta do Panascal is the most famous. Also Quinta de Cruzeiro and Santa something.

7. Confraria do Vinho do Porto. Is the current Chancellor George Sandeman?

8. Just guessing, but I'd say 10?

9. It's very small. As I recall it's only 2 or 2.5 hectares.

10. Cima Corgo. (Baixo Corgo is to its West, and the Douro Superior is to its East.)

[Thomas V]

The Quiz Questions if you want to give it a go.

1. What 2016 top declaring house has produced most 0.75 cl bottle in the vintage?
Bonus for right number

2. Which house has the most 100p wines from Parker?
Bonus for the years

3. Which house has exited the longest?
Bonus for the estb. year

4. Name the 5 blue elite grapes that are mostly used in the port production?

5. Name the wine maker that blended the 1953 Fonseca VP?

6. Name Fonseca's 3 Quintas?

7. What is the port wine brotherhood led by the Chanceler called?
Bonus for the name of the current Chanceler

8. How many years does a Colheita (min 7 years) minimum require on a demijohn before bottled before it can be called a Garrafeira

9. How many hectares if the Quinta do Noval Nacional vineyard?

10. What is the middle zone in the Douro valley called? (Which many of the pristine quintas are located in)

Well since it's been 2 months, I'll give it a go and then maybe others will guess as well.

1. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Rozes, but I have no idea how many bottles.

2. I would guess Quinta do Noval, primarily due to Nacional. '31, '63, '94, and '11?

3. Depends on who you believe. Officially it's Kopke in 1638, but Adrian Bridge claims to have documentation proving that Croft was established in 1588. (You can read about it on croftport.com.)

4. This is trickier than it might seem, because there are 7-8 that are sometimes mentioned as being in the top 5. Touriga Nacional, Touriga Franca, Tinta Roriz, Tinta Cao, and Tinta Francisca would be my guess. I've also heard Tinta Amarela, Tinta Barroca, and Sousao mentioned on this list before.

5. No idea!

6. Quinta do Panascal is the most famous. Also Quinta de Cruzeiro and Santa something.

7. Confraria do Vinho do Porto. Is the current Chancellor George Sandeman?

8. Just guessing, but I'd say 10?

9. It's very small. As I recall it's only 2 or 2.5 hectares.

10. Cima Corgo. (Baixo Corgo is to its West, and the Douro Superior is to its East.)

Nice one Glenn. I will let others have some time to partake if they should so wish. I'll reveal the answers I had typed down in September. It was only a friendly quiz, so it must not be taken to seriously. Perhaps some of the questions will spark debate as #3 & #4.

[Roy Hersh]

A fun read. I would have provided different times for these Ports, but it is all good.

The only thing that I'd change would have been adding in a 2000 and 2003 Fonseca, as they are both so darn good, rounding up from 10 bottles to 12, would have made this a little bit more comprehensive. But that's just me. 1963-1997 is still very nice. Thanks for feedback.

[Eric Menchen]

1. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Rozes, but I have no idea how many bottles.
2. I would guess Quinta do Noval, primarily due to Nacional. '31, '63, '94, and '11?
...
4. This is trickier than it might seem, because there are 7-8 that are sometimes mentioned as being in the top 5. Touriga Nacional, Touriga Franca, Tinta Roriz, Tinta Cao, and Tinta Francisca would be my guess. I've also heard Tinta Amarela, Tinta Barroca, and Sousao mentioned on this list before.
5. No idea!

I like most of your answers, but will comment on the above:
1. Thomas said "top declaring house." I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I think he was looking for someone else. I'm going with Graham's.
2. I thought of Fonseca first, with 1970 and 1977. More recently, I think he's given multiple vintages of Dow 100 points, but those may have been other reviewers. But your Noval answer has more vintages than those.
4. I would swap out Tinta Francisca for Tinta Barroca. The top five I typically see listed are Nacional, Franca, Roriz, Cao, and Barroca; and I hear of Sousao coming in 6th.
5. I thought it was the father of David Bruce Guimaraens, who I thought was David (wrong, Bruce). But now I've done some limited research and not come up with a good answer. I found this article which is confusing: https://www.just-drinks.com/news/bruce- ... 71814.aspx
Bruce Guimaraens made vintages from 1960 on, according to that. Frank Guimaraens made 1896-1948. But who made the ones in the middle? The article is confusing because after a semi-colon, it states, "with the exception of 1955, his [Bruce's] great uncle Frank Guimaraens made every Fonseca vintage from 1896 to 1948." But 1955 isn't in that range, so how can it be an exception? I think the article is wrong with "1948" and the answer is in fact Frank. Time to get out the Fonseca book. Oh, and who was the woman that made the 1955? That article does give the name of the third quinta for question #6, but I'll leave that for others to figure out.

On #6, I presume he means currently--no Quinta do Milieu.

[Thomas V]

Sorry for your troubles. It was a typo, should have written 1963 in question number 5.

And with question 1 I meant which "top" (large/classic/major houses) producing VP houses did the most bottle in 2016.

[Eric Menchen]

Sorry for your troubles. It was a typo, should have written 1963 in question number 5.

O.k., then, that makes it easy, grooss.

[Glenn E.]

Sorry for your troubles. It was a typo, should have written 1963 in question number 5.

Aha! In that case then I would have had a guess, which Eric has already mentioned. (Bruce Guimaraens.)

And with question 1 I meant which "top" (large/classic/major houses) producing VP houses did the most bottle in 2016.

Hmm... in that case I'll switch to a Symington house like Eric, but I'll go with Dow instead of Graham.

[Andy Velebil]

#4 is a fun (trick?) question as it would depend on what time period. Prior to phylloxera Sousao was by far the most often talked about grape in books of that era. Those books commonly refer to it as the top Port grape. It's use largely died out after phylloxera and it's only been in more recent years that it's made a decent comeback in its use.

[Eric Ifune]

Everyone talks about Touriga Nacional, but it makes up only a little percentage wise.