Are you thinking of retiring to Portugal?

[Roy Hersh]

Here is an interesting "investment" article that explores how the rich people look at moving to Portugal. It is mind-blowing that some can't consider it, even when earning 1 million USD per year. Have a read, possibly a good laugh, and otherwise ... follow the advice.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/420366 ... year?ifp=0

[Eric Menchen]

A very worthwhile perspective.

and avoided picking up any nasty case of European-style income taxes such as one might catch in a country like France

[Bert VD]

one of my friends just moved there. no retirement yet but a change of career. from theatre technician to tourism.
(he bought an old quinta with guest houses about halfway between Coimbra and Viseu. a bit more towards Serra da Estrela nature reserve)

[Glenn E.]

$140,000 / year in private schooling... there's the main "problem" right there. But there are many items on that guy's list that are choices, not necessities, which means that his real problem is that he doesn't have the discipline to save money.

E.g. PEBKAC. (A very old IT joke diagnosis: problem exists between keyboard and chair.)

[Eric Menchen]

$140,000 / year in private schooling... there's the main "problem" right there.

Agreed. And it's not like the public schools in the DC area are bad. Fairfax County has some of the best schools in the nation.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-h ... ols-109481

[Alan McDonald]

I do not post much, primarily because I have nothing of consequence to say. I do lurk from time to time. My wife and I still drink our 3 to 4 bottles of Port a week, but have given up on Vintage over the last few years. We find that Ruby suits our palates and food better. We only drink when eating, and every night have a main course followed by several cheeses, which is when we drink the Port. Half a bottle between us is not so much. We have never been keen on other styles, other than we both liked Vintage when younger.

I have lived in Portugal for 15 years and am proposing to retire here. We decided on semi-retirement when we moved from northern Scotland, and had not intended to retire so early, but I had a bad fall on a steep street when visiting our son in England last December, and find I now need some assistance with heavier tasks and I do not like that, I prefer to do my own work. At 74 I suppose I should not complain too much. We intend to move to the Azores rather than remain on the mainland and at present favour Pico. The only Azorean wine I have had is the 1994 Lajido from Pico. I still have the best part of a case, but I am looking forward to trying other vintages and other wines. I am also looking forward to having only a garden to take care of and doing a lot of fishing.

The writer of the article must live an extremely expensive lifestyle if he spends $60,000 a year. I fail to see how a couple could possibly need anywhere near that much. Nor do I see how it could possibly cost a family with 3 kids $100,000 a year.

There are just the two of us, but we live exceptionally well on a lot less than $20,000 a year. We left Scotland because we had to continue running a business requiring both of us to work 100 hours a week (not exaggerating) to produce the income we needed there. We certainly cannot afford to retire there, or any northern European country. Portugal is so cheap and the minimum wage is what many people have to live on. No doubt life is not easy but many manage on it. I am out of touch with how much it is, but it is only a few hundred a month. $1500 a month would let a couple live very well.

I pay less than €150 fully comprehensive insurance for my vehicle, and anybody can drive it. The road tax (do not know the US equivalent) is about £35. We do not pay any health insurance and after needing a hospital stay a couple of years ago with a kidney stone can undoubtedly say that the cleanliness, standard of care, meals and friendliness of the staff is considerably better than the British NHS. Because the house in which we live is part of a rural property there are no property taxes. Food is very cheap - fillet steak €30/kg; pork loin €5; chicken breasts about the same. Fish and seafood very variable depending on what is bought. I can only compare with the UK, but fresh fruit and vegetables are way below their prices. As for wine.......... well, some of you know how cheap it is, but for those who do not, there are cheap enjoyable wines, with better ones starting from €3 upwards. There are expensive ones too of course, but these appear to be selling on their name rather than 3 or 4 times the quality. Ruby Port, our standard everyday drink, is usually between €5 and €6 for Calem and Barosso which are our current consumption. Quality varies amongst different brands from time to time, and we switch when needed. Most other well known brands are in the same price bracket, with some undercutting the market. I could go on, but I think any reader will have got the message that Portugal is a very cheap place to live a most enjoyable existence. It is also very clean and very safe. The winters are extremely mild and the summers not too hot.

What more could you ask?

If the next part breaks the house rules I am sure the moderators can remove it, but before I retire I need to sell my quinta and if anyone is interested the details are at www.oldmcdonaldsolives.com Can I also ask any northern Europe members if they could give me a contact for any magazines they think might be suitable for me to use for advertising. We have been on the market two weeks and are concentrating the early advertising in the UK and Ireland, but I would like to use mainland European advertising in the future.

[Mike K.]

Alan, thank you for taking the time to write that post! I really enjoyed reading about your experience in Portugal. It is a tempting idea indeed. Why are you thinking of moving from the mainland to the Azores?

I’d share your story with my wife, but she’s want to move there tomorrow. Not that it’s a bad idea!

Best of luck with your sale and move.

Cheers, Mike

[Alan McDonald]

We have lived inland for most of our lives - 400 miles from the coast when we were farming in Australia. We have both always liked fresh water fishing (twice, including here, having our own stretch of river) but had a brief spell 30 years ago of doing some sea fishing from the rocks in NSW, Australia and thoroughly enjoyed it. We just thought we would like to live by the coast for a while. We still intend to eventually die in Scotland - but not for a long time yet.

[Alan McDonald]

Mike, I keep forgetting to follow up on two points I mssed in my response to you- the first is that the coastal stretch of mainland Portugal is very crowded (at least by our standards where we have always lived in what some peope would consider isolated circumstances) and the other is that the prices of properties are so much higher along the coast than further inland.

How much time do you want to spend on a beach full of other people? Calculate the cost of living a couple of hours away from the coast and just renting accommodation at the coast for two days several times a year. You win by living inland. In fact do you even want to be on a beach with a lot of other people? We have our own river beach. Not the same as the sea, but nobody else about either.

[Mike K.]

Thank you for the follow-up Alan. I wrestle with the same questions here. Near the ocean is beautiful, but crowded and expensive. Living inland on a lake or on a hill top offers excellent scenery for far less money. Been starting to vacation in some of these areas to get a feel for things and see what's the right fit for retirement.

On the Azores, is living near the ocean more practical? Or will you still be a bit inland? (albeit far less)

[Alan McDonald]

Given the size of the islands, and the shape of the bigger ones such as São Jorge and Pico, it is somewhat difficult to get away from the sea. I suppose it all depends on how close you want to be. We certainly do not want to live at sea level or on the edge of a cliff. You know the problems with living too close to the sea in the US. The same applies right around the world. Too dangerous in storm conditions, a tsunami or even the general sea level rises which are occurring almost everywhere in the world. There are some places, not many, but some, where sea levels are actually falling. Not for this forum, but I have the info if you really want it.

The prices of properties appears not to be too much affected on the Azores whether they are really close to the sea or not. I suppose if you have lived there all your life, it matters not whether the sea is fifty yards away or half a mile. The biggest problem is that most properties on the Azores (and Portugal in general) are offered either with no house, a ruin, or a house in need of serious upgrading. Not unusual. We have found that to be the case whenever we have moved. A habitable house has always been our first consideration, although I have twice had to install what we consider an essential - an indoor toilet.

[Alan McDonald]

At the weekend, and from two different sources, I heard of two U.S. families that have moved to Portugal. Is it in fact becoming a trend?

I know this country is extremely safe and has a very low cost of living, not to mention the reason for this forum, but considering I speak to so few people, I found it unusual to hear of two cases in two days.

[Marco D.]

I would love to retire there as well (some time between 3 - 8 years). The task seems overwhelming, however... figuring out healthcare, citizenship, taxes, real estate, etc... Where does one start?

[Alan McDonald]

Moving around the world is easy. We have owned farms in England (2), Australia, Scotland and Portugal. Admittedly, being British the UK is no problem, but we were foreigners in Australia as we are here. We move only personal effects, not large items of furniture.

You could start with a Portuguese consulate in USA if you want to ask specific questions, but see also my post of 13th Sept. We do not have any private healthcare insurance. We have never had private healthcare anywhere in the world. If you are accepted as a resident then you are permitted to make use of the national service.

There is no need to change your citizenship, we have always been, and will continue to be, British. Use an Accountant to advise on tax matters. I am an accountant myself, but always use someone with the highest professional standard in whichever country I reside, that is normally called "chartered" or similar. I am not "chartered" but as well qualified as others who practice and are not "chartered" either.

As for real estate, half of Portugal appears to be for sale, and we are fully expecting that it will take us a long time to sell. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how cheap land and houses are here, and the cost of living is extremely low. To us, the most important thing is the safety of the country. We see daily reports of killings in the US. Never hear of anything like that happening here.

[Andy Velebil]

Alan,
America isn't perfect and yes we do have murders but people fail to grasp just how big we are compared to other countries. The odds of someone being a victim of a major crime here is quite low. Here's some stats so you know.

Portugal is approximately 92,090 sq km, while United States is approximately 9,833,517 sq km. Meanwhile, the population of Portugal is ~11 million people (313 million more people live in United States).

just a slight difference

[Eric Menchen]

I would love to retire there as well (some time between 3 - 8 years). The task seems overwhelming, however... figuring out healthcare, citizenship, taxes, real estate, etc... Where does one start?

It has a bit of a UK citizen focus, but one resource: https://www.propertyguides.com/portugal/

[Alan McDonald]

Alan,
America isn't perfect and yes we do have murders but people fail to grasp just how big we are compared to other countries. The odds of someone being a victim of a major crime here is quite low. Here's some stats so you know.

Portugal is approximately 92,090 sq km, while United States is approximately 9,833,517 sq km. Meanwhile, the population of Portugal is ~11 million people (313 million more people live in United States).

just a slight difference

I was aware of the stats, primarily because I recently checked the difference between Australia and the USA regarding size and population.

Since the US population is, very roughly, 30 times that of Portugal, the violent crime rate should be about 30 times higher for it to be equal. I made reference to what I see regularly on the news, because the person to whom I was replying is resident in the US. Had he been from Johannesburg or London I could probably have given him worse problematic scenarios. I am sure that in both those cases the violent crime rate is much worse than across the US as a whole. I still maintain that it is extremely low in Portugal.

[Bert VD]

i just saw some properties for the dreamers...

https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... C-0039.htm (you can be the neighbour of Bomfim and da Roêda )

and there are more:
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... C-0025.htm (Peso Da Regua but the exact location is not clear)

smaller:
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... 6327_Q.htm (north of Peso Da Regua, next to the N2)
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... 693385.htm (Vila Flor but the location is not clear)
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... 735197.htm (west of Vila Flor and South of Roios)

and bigger!
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/properties/35144a-494.htm (location not clear but it should be somewhere around Nabo)
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... c-0026.htm (again Peso Da Regua, but not clear)
https://www.green-acres.pt/en/propertie ... 735198.htm (Nabo in the Douro Superior http://www.quintadogranjal.pt/ this looks brand new..)

[Eric Menchen]

i just saw some properties for the dreamers...

Excellent. Now I just need to figure out which one to pick.

[Bert VD]

i'd go for right next to Bomfim. right in the middle