For The Love Of Port

Ivan P wrote:

Glenn E. wrote: So... it's complicated when you're talking about a vintage as a whole. Do you judge the vintage based on the best it produced, or on the overall average across all producers?

Glenn, thanks for the explanation. I learned something new today!

Just my opinion, though. Others would probably have different ratings and explanations. :)

Moses Botbol wrote:

Eric Menchen wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote: That could be in your favor if they have '70 - '85 Fonseca.

'70 Fonseca yes. But '85 can be found at a good number of places for under $100.

Any bottle of '85 Fonseca under $100 should be purchased ASAP. Give away for what it is.

The '85 Fonseca is the best bottle of VP that I've had from the 80's. Nothing has come close to it so far; but in the name of science and research, I'll keep looking.

Mike J. W. wrote:[The '85 Fonseca is the best bottle of VP that I've had from the 80's. Nothing has come close to it so far; but in the name of science and research, I'll keep looking.

There are about 8-12 must have's from the 80's. Some depends whether you like the producers like Ferreira or Ramos Pinto. '85 Fonseca is probably the single best port of the decade.

Moses Botbol wrote:

Mike J. W. wrote:[The '85 Fonseca is the best bottle of VP that I've had from the 80's. Nothing has come close to it so far; but in the name of science and research, I'll keep looking.

There are about 8-12 must have's from the 80's. Some depends whether you like the producers like Ferreira or Ramos Pinto. '85 Fonseca is probably the single best port of the decade.

Would you mind listing them? Anyone else want to chime in with their 80's favorites? (Port, not music )

Mike J. W. wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote:

Mike J. W. wrote:[The '85 Fonseca is the best bottle of VP that I've had from the 80's. Nothing has come close to it so far; but in the name of science and research, I'll keep looking.

There are about 8-12 must have's from the 80's. Some depends whether you like the producers like Ferreira or Ramos Pinto. '85 Fonseca is probably the single best port of the decade.

Would you mind listing them? Anyone else want to chime in with their 80's favorites? (Port, not music )

Off the top of my head (not in an order)

80, 83, 85 Ferreira
83 Ramos Pinto
80, 83, 85 Grahams
85 Fonseca
80, 83, 85 Gould Campbell
85 Burmester
80, 85 Dow
80 Taylor
80 Sandeman (been a while but remember really liking it)
85 Warre

There will be plenty of debate to my list, but can't go wrong with anything listed above at a minimum.

Moses Botbol wrote:There will be plenty of debate to my list, but can't go wrong with anything listed above at a minimum.

I would quickly add 1980 Warre. Then I would consider whether you can find good bottles of 1983 and 1985 Smith Woodhouse.

Eric Menchen wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote:There will be plenty of debate to my list, but can't go wrong with anything listed above at a minimum.

I would quickly add 1980 Warre. Then I would consider whether you can find good bottles of 1983 and 1985 Smith Woodhouse.

Was going to add '83 and '85 SW. I see from the FTLOP database, I had '80 Warre a decade ago and gave it 92 points; so yes add it to the list. I didn't recall ever having it until I looked it up

Moses Botbol wrote:

Mike J. W. wrote:

Moses Botbol wrote:
There are about 8-12 must have's from the 80's. Some depends whether you like the producers like Ferreira or Ramos Pinto. '85 Fonseca is probably the single best port of the decade.

Would you mind listing them? Anyone else want to chime in with their 80's favorites? (Port, not music )

Off the top of my head (not in an order)

80, 83, 85 Ferreira
83 Ramos Pinto
80, 83, 85 Grahams
85 Fonseca
80, 83, 85 Gould Campbell
85 Burmester
80, 85 Dow
80 Taylor
80 Sandeman (been a while but remember really liking it)
85 Warre

There will be plenty of debate to my list, but can't go wrong with anything listed above at a minimum.

Thanks Moses. That's a comprehensive list. I have the Fonseca, the Gould Campbell, the Grahams and the '80 Dow. I'll have to keep my eye out for some of the other ones.

The '87 Taylor Vargellas is comparable to the '85 Fonseca, so easily belongs on any list of the best Vintage Ports of the 1980s. That one probably just slipped Moses's mind.

I've personally rated the '85 Graham over the '85 Fonseca, blind, on multiple occasions. But I also have a well-known affection for Graham's VPs, so your mileage may vary. I also wouldn't rate the Ferreiras that highly... they're good but not great in my opinion... but as Moses said that's just quibbling about order. It's a great list and you won't go wrong with any of them.

Glenn E. wrote:The '87 Taylor Vargellas is comparable to the '85 Fonseca, so easily belongs on any list of the best Vintage Ports of the 1980s. That one probably just slipped Moses's mind.

I've personally rated the '85 Graham over the '85 Fonseca, blind, on multiple occasions. But I also have a well-known affection for Graham's VPs, so your mileage may vary. I also wouldn't rate the Ferreiras that highly... they're good but not great in my opinion... but as Moses said that's just quibbling about order. It's a great list and you won't go wrong with any of them.

I recently acquired the '87 Taylor Vargellas, but I'm not sure when I'm going to try it.

Graham's used to be my favorite, but it's been edged out by Fonseca ever since I first had their '94 and '85. I haven't tried the '85 Graham yet, so it's always possible my allegiance will swing back again. Both are great Port lines.

Glenn E. wrote:The '87 Taylor Vargellas is comparable to the '85 Fonseca, so easily belongs on any list of the best Vintage Ports of the 1980s. That one probably just slipped Moses's mind.

I've personally rated the '85 Graham over the '85 Fonseca, blind, on multiple occasions. But I also have a well-known affection for Graham's VPs, so your mileage may vary. I also wouldn't rate the Ferreiras that highly... they're good but not great in my opinion... but as Moses said that's just quibbling about order. It's a great list and you won't go wrong with any of them.

Never had '87 Vargellas, but hear that is one of the best. Ferreira and Ramos Pinto are two brands that many have strong opinions on. They either like them or not. I happen to really like both.

Mike J. W. wrote:Graham's used to be my favorite, but it's been edged out by Fonseca ever since I first had their '94 and '85. I haven't tried the '85 Graham yet, so it's always possible my allegiance will swing back again. Both are great Port lines.

I don't think '85 Graham will change your opinion. A solid & typical Graham port. You don't have to love Graham ports to like the '85. If you like port in general you'll like it.

Glenn E. wrote:The '87 Taylor Vargellas is comparable to the '85 Fonseca, so easily belongs on any list of the best Vintage Ports of the 1980s. That one probably just slipped Moses's mind.

I've personally rated the '85 Graham over the '85 Fonseca, blind, on multiple occasions. But I also have a well-known affection for Graham's VPs, so your mileage may vary.

I've only had the '87 Taylor Vargellas once, and that bottle was corked

I've personally rated the '85 Fonseca over the '85 Graham, blind, on multiple occasions. But I also have a know disaffection for Graham's. I recognize it is a quality label and will gladly drink it. But at those tastings with Glenn, I've scored the same Graham bottles a few points lower than he. I don't recall if I scored the Fonseca the same, or higher.

I'm slightly skeptical of the 1980 Taylor. The one time I tried it, I scored it 88-89 points. I've scored the 1983 Taylor 89-90, and 91 points; the 1985 91 and 92 points.

Taylor's 1980, 1983 are ok at best and with discretionary income I'd invest in many other things first. The 1985 is the best of the regular Taylor's VPs in the decade, but it is just meh compared to many other 1985s. As I've said for many years, the 1987 Vargellas is way better than any other Taylor's of the decade. Love that Port and it is not easy to find. In 2018, I found four bottles of it hidden in my cellar, now added to my remaining six pack. Thrilled to have 10 of these. So hard to find nowadays!!

1985 Fonseca is a considerable step above any other 1985. Yes, the Graham's and Gould Campbell are the next best in my opinion, but the Fonseca is at least two points better than either and will be longer lasting and greater, in decades to come. Try to find my article on the two best VPs of the 1980s decade. Lots to learn in there.

1980 Gould Campbell is still awesome and there are many fine 1980s in the list. The Dow's, GC, Graham's, Smith Woodhouse, Sandeman, Ferreira (love this one!), and Warre's are all very solid in that vintage.

I would not pay over $100 for any VP from the 1980s. At least not yet.

The 1980 and 1985 vintage are both better than 1983 today. You can still find some good 1983s but they are not all that special. Clean bottles of Cockburn's (good luck ) and Ramos Pinto are very solid, Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse, Dow's and Graham's are all worthy at the right price.

Mike J. W. wrote:

Glenn E. wrote:The '87 Taylor Vargellas is comparable to the '85 Fonseca, so easily belongs on any list of the best Vintage Ports of the 1980s. That one probably just slipped Moses's mind.

I've personally rated the '85 Graham over the '85 Fonseca, blind, on multiple occasions. But I also have a well-known affection for Graham's VPs, so your mileage may vary. I also wouldn't rate the Ferreiras that highly... they're good but not great in my opinion... but as Moses said that's just quibbling about order. It's a great list and you won't go wrong with any of them.

I recently acquired the '87 Taylor Vargellas, but I'm not sure when I'm going to try it.

Graham's used to be my favorite, but it's been edged out by Fonseca ever since I first had their '94 and '85. I haven't tried the '85 Graham yet, so it's always possible my allegiance will swing back again. Both are great Port lines.

No rush on the '87 Vargellas, it will last for decades. It honestly is on par with the '85 Fonseca... Roy and I have tasted them side-by-side as well as mixed into larger tastings. I'm very jealous of his stash!

Graham, Fonseca, and Vesuvio are my favorite producers. Gould Campbell, too, but sadly they're no more.

For the longest time Graham wasn't even on my list. But when I went back and reviewed multiple tastings, I found that while it was rarely my favorite from any particular vintage it was almost always 2nd. Like, literally 2nd. Sometimes #1 would be Fonseca, sometimes Vesuvio, sometimes Taylor. What clued me in that I really liked Graham was two things - as previously mentioned it seemed like it was always #2, and there's no "down" vintage for Graham. All 3 of the vintages from the 1980s are excellent, unlike Taylor or Fonseca which have decidedly down years where they're "just good". Vesuvio is too young in general to really know for sure, but for me it tends to be top 5 vs top 3. As a single-quinta VP, it's style also isn't as consistent. The 1994 in particular is unlike any other Vesuvio, and the vintages pre-1994 are very different than those from post-1994.

On the topic of buying older port from retail stores and 80s Fonseca, a few years ago I spotted a stray bottle of 1988 Fonseca Guimaraens for about $40 Canadian. I threw all caution to the wind.

Cheers ................. Mahmoud.