Nacional

Kris H · Post by **Kris H** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:19 pm

Hey everybody,
I am a rookie to this. I have really tried to immerse myself in getting to know as much as possible about Port. So, here is the question, are the Nacionals really worth the money? I am sure from an investment stand point they are, but we are here to enjoy drinking Port.

Thanks!!
Kris

Marc J. · Post by **Marc J.** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:15 pm

First of all I say YES! Nacionals are in class by themselves are are worth the extra expense. With that said, I'd recommend that someone new to port might want to work up to the Nacionals. There are tons of fine vintage ports from various decades that will offer mouth-filling enjoyment. After sampling a wide variety of vintage ports over time, one's palate tends to becomes a little more attunded to the nuances of VP and at this point you'll, more than likely, be able to more fully enjoy a Nacional.

Marc

Luc Gauthier · Post by **Luc Gauthier** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:59 pm

I agree with Marc .
Why start at the top and pay a premium price , when there are plenty other VP's that enjoy a better price/quality ratio . . .

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:07 pm

I also say YES, with an exception.

Marc is spot on that they are in a class by themselves, but that is also vintage dependant. As with any wine some years are better than others and Nacionals are no exception. Although I've not had any from the 1980's, from everything I've read they were good but not great and really not worth the high price they command, when compared to other VP's from the same year.

But in other years, say 1963, all I can say is they is they are awsome. I don't know what your Vintage Port drinking experience is, but if you've not had many older VP's (say 35+ years) then I'd cut your teeth on less expensive stuff and save the Nacionals for later. That doesn't mean you should buy any now if you have the means. There's no rush to drink the better vintages of Nacionals.

BTW, welcome to FTLOP its great to have you here. Hopefully you'll continue to visit us and post lots. This is a great group of people and feel free to ask any question. We are all here to learn from each other.

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:47 pm

Nacional is like 1st Growth in Bordeaux. It has become a collector's item. Unfortunately it is traded more often than drink. Even if the quality is high, it is a very bad quality price ratio port. It is very expensive for sometimes a little step ahead of others and again it is a matter of taste. Its price is justified with the glory of the 31 and 63 and small supplies for demand.

Moses Botbol · Post by **Moses Botbol** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:23 am

I would build up a buffer of regular vintages before starting to collect Nacionals (assuming drinking port is your intention). I had one Nacional (forgot which year), but it was only slightly better than other ports of the same vintage. To a casual or new port drinker, the difference may be even smaller.

I am not suggesting passing on the Nacionals, but if you have a limited budget for port, different choices may yield more enjoyment.

Kris H · Post by **Kris H** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:52 am

Thanks!! All this info is really helpful. I will hold off (for now) until I have grown my palate to spend the $$.

I look forward to having all of my questions answered and hope to be able to contribute answers as my taste and knowledge grows.

Thanks again,
Kris

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:02 am

Leto11 wrote:Thanks!! All this info is really helpful. I will hold off (for now) until I have grown my palate to spend the $$.

I look forward to having all of my questions answered and hope to be able to contribute answers as my taste and knowledge grows.

Thanks again,
Kris

That's the spirit Kris, welcome aboard!

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:53 am

Kris,

Hey it is nice to have you with us here at the FTLOP. Hopefully you see how warm and welcoming the folks here can be and they enjoy helping whether a regular participant or new guest.

On to Nacional. I've had consumed parts or all of about 60-70 bottles of Nacional in the past 15 years, since my very first bottle which was a 1966.
You have already received excellent advice here from the Port pundits and I can only add, that Nacional is to Port what Chateau d"Yquem is to Sauternes. It is typically (but not always) in a different stratosphere from its peers, even first growth VP producers like Graham, Fonsca, Niepoort and Taylor. Try a '63, '66. '67, '70, '97 or even 1994 to see what I mean.

I hope you will stick around and continue to share your experiences, ask plenty of questions and most of all, enjoy yourself here.

Best regards,

Roy

Kris H · Post by **Kris H** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:12 pm

Thanks Roy!

Of the 4 producers and 6 years, could you make a recommendation of what you would consider the best under $200?

Also, I purchased a 77 Fonseca, but you did not include 77 in your list. Was that a not so great purchase?

Your help is much appreciated.
Kris

Paul_B · Post by **Paul_B** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:24 pm

Hi Kris,
welcome... maybe you will find some ideas in Roy's Top 12 here:

http://www.fortheloveofport.com/index.p ... 2&Itemid=1

cheers
paul

Kris H · Post by **Kris H** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:12 pm

Thanks Paul :)

Post by **Roy Hersh** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:45 am

Of the 4 producers and 6 years, could you make a recommendation of what you would consider the best under $200?

I am not sure of which 4 producers and six years you are talking about. I must be missing something here.

Also, the 1977 Fonseca is a beautiful Port (I'll be drinking some in about four hours) but I have seen some extremes in bottle variation and have my concerns. Perfect bottles still show the amazing grace and gorgeous nature of this beast. But I've had my share of lame ducks too. That is why it is not on my list, too risky given the $ today. I am not so sure that it ever really was a 100 point VP anyway, but that is the least of my concerns.

jon bricken · Post by **jon bricken** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:26 pm

I have never had the chance to taste a Nacional, but last year I had the opportunity to buy a bottle of the Nacional 1994 at auction (my daughter birth year) so I put in a low bid for $525 and I won it.

I have been thinking of when and under what circumstances will I crack the bottle.

Still don't have the answer but with Nacional there is no rush.

Post by **Andy Velebil** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:11 am

jon bricken wrote:
I have been thinking of when and under what circumstances will I crack the bottle.

Still don't have the answer but with Nacional there is no rush.

Jon,
that bottle will probably outlive you and me, so there is no rush on that one...its still a baby.

jon bricken · Post by **jon bricken** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:31 am

There was a local auction yesterday where another bottle of the 1994 appeared but it was in a lot with a regular Noval 1997 and the min bid was $750 (ex buyers premimum and tax) so I passed.

There were many full cases of 94's Dow, Warres, Vesuvio, Graham's, Noval, Fonseca and Taylors.

None of them went close to the high estimate.

No one can say that the auction market is still not exploding!