Seen in the wild today.

[Mike J. W.]

I was on my way home from visiting my daughter in upstate N.Y. and I stopped at a local B&M in NJ on the way home. I came across 2 bottles of the rarely seen 1977 Cockburn VP. I thought it was pretty cool and certainly unexpected. It was in a nice, individual wooden presentation box.
$200 a piece. I didn't buy one...yet.

Feel free to contribute to this thread and talk about a fun or rare find that you came across when you were Port hunting at a store.

Mods: I just realized I should have probably posted this in the Port Forum. Feel free to move it if you want.

[Glenn E.]

Mods: I just realized I should have probably posted this in the Port Forum. Feel free to move it if you want.

Moved.

[Glenn E.]

I picked up a couple of those a couple of years ago when they were first released. Similar story, except IIRC it was Bradley Bogdan who found them, and I split them with him. We didn't pay that much for them, either... again IIRC it was more like $125 or $150. That still seemed high at the time, but at least to me totally worth it because of the backstory of the Port.

[Andy Velebil]

for $200 but them. I've never seen it at retail, from an official release, that cheap. Oh, and having had it a number of times, it's a bloody good VP.

[Moses Botbol]

I thought the msrp was $150 when they released them?

[Glenn E.]

I thought the msrp was $150 when they released them?

I think that's probably correct. My memory is that the bottles seemed expensive at the time, but not outrageous, and worth it due to the story and rarity. $200 now is probably about right for the same reasons. Good 1977s range from $150 to $250 at retail.

[Moses Botbol]

Pretty sure I have seen them under $200 at retail in MA.

[Tom Archer]

It's a curiosity. The total production was only about 2000 bottles, and prior to the Symington purchase of Cockburn was not officially recognised as a VP.

I've had it a few times - respectable, but not an exceptional '77.

An interesting item to have in your cellar as a library bottle, but for drinking, you can get much better VP for $200..

[Glenn E.]

I've only had it 3 times I think, possibly 4. My scores have been pretty consistent - 93 points, which is the high end of "excellent" for me. Once I scored it 94 points, which is the low end of the "outstanding" range.

As Tom said, it's the kind of Port that I want to have in my cellar because of the interesting story. It's a great bottle to bring to a tasting for that reason. In a way, these are "trophy" or "collector" bottles of Port - you own them because they're cool and interesting, not necessarily because they're amazing. (Though they are really very good.) But for drinking, there are nicer bottles of Port that you can get for the price of a 1977 Cockburn.

Note that the bottles on the market now are ex-cellars and in absolutely pristine condition. You will probably never see better stored bottles with any amount of age ever again. In my brief experience they have shown young for their actual age, probably due to having been stored for the bulk of their lives in the Cockburn cellar in Vila Nova de Gaia.

[Tom Archer]

in the Cockburn cellar in Vila Nova de Gaia.

A very basic room immediately below the working floor of the lodge.

Although north facing and moderated by the Atlantic climate, I don't consider storage in the Gaia lodges to be much of a plus. Some of the bottle stores there get alarmingly warm in high summer.

The annual average temperature in Portugal is over 10F higher than in the UK.

[Glenn E.]

in the Cockburn cellar in Vila Nova de Gaia.

A very basic room immediately below the working floor of the lodge.

Yeah, that's kind of the definition of a cellar. Big underground room with a dirt floor. Some of the more modern cellars are finished and have concrete floors, but most of them are just that - cellars. Earth is an amazing insulator.

Although north facing and moderated by the Atlantic climate, I don't consider storage in the Gaia lodges to be much of a plus. Some of the bottle stores there get alarmingly warm in high summer.

The cellars of the larger companies - such as Cockburn - are quite stable, temperature-wise. Some smaller companies that only have small cellars in VNdG may have more temperature variation. Furthermore, bottle storage is typically deeper into the cellar where things are at their most stable.

The annual average temperature in Portugal is over 10F higher than in the UK.

And yet Port is made in Portugal, not the UK, perhaps indicating that the weather in Portugal is more correct for Port than the weather in the UK.

[Tom Archer]

Yeah, that's kind of the definition of a cellar. Big underground room with a dirt floor. Some of the more modern cellars are finished and have concrete floors, but most of them are just that - cellars. Earth is an amazing insulator.

You don't want an insulating floor in a cellar - the key to cellar temperature stability is good thermal connectivity to the ground below and good insulation above.

A vaulted ceiling like Dirk's is effective in the summer because the warmer air rises and is then trapped below the arch. Trapped air is the basis of most insulators. The Cockburn cellar has a relatively low flat ceiling with just a slab of concrete separating it from the floor above.

The cellars of the larger companies - such as Cockburn - are quite stable, temperature-wise. Some smaller companies that only have small cellars in VNdG may have more temperature variation. Furthermore, bottle storage is typically deeper into the cellar where things are at their most stable.

I've been in the Croft bottle store when it was alarmingly hot, and when TFP opened their new home for their old Fonseca bottles it felt way too warm, with many bottles showing seepage. Old ex. cellars bottles of Sandeman are usually very evolved.

And yet Port is made in Portugal, not the UK, perhaps indicating that the weather in Portugal is more correct for Port than the weather in the UK.

The branch line to the small town of Thaxted in England (long since closed) had a station that was outside the town, because they didn't have the funds to build a viaduct to cover the last half mile.

When a passenger once complained to the station master, asking why the station was so far from the town, he replied: 'Well sir, I reckon they thought it better to build the station next to the railway'

[Glenn E.]

Yeah, that's kind of the definition of a cellar. Big underground room with a dirt floor. Some of the more modern cellars are finished and have concrete floors, but most of them are just that - cellars. Earth is an amazing insulator.

You don't want an insulating floor in a cellar - the key to cellar temperature stability is good thermal connectivity to the ground below and good insulation above.

A vaulted ceiling like Dirk's is effective in the summer because the warmer air rises and is then trapped below the arch. Trapped air is the basis of most insulators. The Cockburn cellar has a relatively low flat ceiling with just a slab of concrete separating it from the floor above.

Concrete is also an excellent insulator.

But I misspoke - what I meant to say is that the direct earth connection in the cellar helps stabilize the temperature.

The cellars of the larger companies - such as Cockburn - are quite stable, temperature-wise. Some smaller companies that only have small cellars in VNdG may have more temperature variation. Furthermore, bottle storage is typically deeper into the cellar where things are at their most stable.

I've been in the Croft bottle store when it was alarmingly hot, and when TFP opened their new home for their old Fonseca bottles it felt way too warm, with many bottles showing seepage. Old ex. cellars bottles of Sandeman are usually very evolved.

I've been in cellars throughout the summer except for July, and I've never found one that was "alarmingly hot". Not even close. I think you're being hyperbolic. The worst case that I've experienced may have been as "warm" as 65 degrees, which is still cool and perfectly suitable for storing Port long term.

[Eric Menchen]

Just for reference, barrels up here:

co1.jpg (159.37 KiB) Viewed 4528 times

And bottles down here:

co2.jpg (164.3 KiB) Viewed 4528 times

[Tom Archer]

If it's the same room, the bottle store has been completely refurbished - the one I visited around ten years ago had brick and concrete bins and was very dusty.

[Eric Menchen]

My pictures are from 2017.

[Andy Velebil]

If it's the same room, the bottle store has been completely refurbished - the one I visited around ten years ago had brick and concrete bins and was very dusty.

Last time I was down there it was emptied out and the bottles moved.

Also, almost all the lodges have raised roofs and not flat roofs.

Dirt floors so it can be watered down in summer when needed to help cool and for humidity.

[Tom Archer]

I remember the lady who looked after that bottle store - she rejoiced in it's dustiness, and even recounted her horror when a new member of staff went round with a duster. She must be heartbroken to see the bottles washed.

That said it was chaotic, with little stashes of dusty bottles identified by chalked slates in no particular order. Moreover, neglect is not good cellar management.

If anyone has been in there recently with a camera running, I'd be interested to know what stocks are in there of other undeclared vintages besides '77 - notably 1931, 1945 and 1966.

[Jonathan S]

I was on my way home from visiting my daughter in upstate N.Y. and I stopped at a local B&M in NJ on the way home. I came across 2 bottles of the rarely seen 1977 Cockburn VP. I thought it was pretty cool and certainly unexpected. It was in a nice, individual wooden presentation box.
$200 a piece. I didn't buy one...yet.

Feel free to contribute to this thread and talk about a fun or rare find that you came across when you were Port hunting at a store.

Mods: I just realized I should have probably posted this in the Port Forum. Feel free to move it if you want.

What a great story, Mike! With the global price (on Wine-Searcher) at $300 per bottle, $200 isn't too bad, especially for one with the wooden box. But... in agreement with some of the others, I'd probably spend my coin on a more highly rated 1977 VP. :)

[Jonathan S]

What a great story, Mike! With the global price (on Wine-Searcher) at $300 per bottle, $200 isn't too bad, especially for one with the wooden box. But... in agreement with some of the others, I'd probably spend my coin on a more highly rated 1977 VP. :)

Wow! I just did some additional research on the rarefied 1977 Cockburn, and, according to the article below, only 1400 bottles were released worldwide, and only 400 bottles were shipped to the US. That makes your sighting even more impressive, Mike!

Article: https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2015/07 ... y-released