For The Love Of Port

I have some bottles labeled 1875 D'Oliveiras Moscatel and some labeled 1875 D'Oliveiras Moscatel Graudo.
Are these different varietals? Any insights or other thoughts?

Have not seen the "Graudo" label. I'm guessing they're the same wine. Is there a bottling date? D'Oliveiras started adding them to the back label in the mid-90's. The type of selo may also help. They are bottled with a variety of selos depending on bottling date. Some are as old as the old Junta selos. I actually prefer the older bottlings.

Jim,

have pictures available?

Hi Andreas,

These bottles have a bottling year of 2014.
I’ll take pics and make an attempt to upload the photos, but I’m not sure I can manage it.

Soon,
Jim

These came in those thin, cardboard gift-boxes. On top of the box, it says "Reserva Frasqueira".

It is a different grape variety. Moscatel de Setúbal is the most widely known in Portugal, with Moscatel Graúdo and Moscatel Galego Branco (which is found in the Douro) being the other two. There is also a variant of Moscatel Galego Branco that can be found in the Setúbal region called Moscatel Galego Roxo, and as you can probably tell from the name Moscatel Galego Roxo is a red grape while the others are white.

Allegedly, Moscatel Graúdo is mostly used to enhance the nose of other white wines. I've seen references that claim that it is more generally known as Muscat of Alexandria in the rest of the world, but I've also seen references claiming that it is Moscatel de Setúbal that is known that way.

If I had to, my guess would be that the unspecified bottles are made with Setúbal (or a blend) while the specific ones are made with Graúdo. But that is purely a wild guess.

My belief was that the variety for Moscatel de Setubal was the same as Muscat of Alexandria. There are literally dozens of varieties of Muscat, it being one of the oldest Vitis vinifera cultivated. Muscat Petite Grains is the variety of Australian muscats.

Eric Ifune wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:53 pm My belief was that the variety for Moscatel de Setubal was the same as Muscat of Alexandria. There are literally dozens of varieties of Muscat, it being one of the oldest Vitis vinifera cultivated. Muscat Petite Grains is the variety of Australian muscats.

As I recall, Moscatel Galego is the Portuguese name for Muscat à Petits Grains (in both red and white forms).

Well, you all made me get out the encyclopedia, The Oxford Companion to Wine (4th ed.). According to that, Muscat Blanc à Petit Grains, despite the name, can come in a variety of colors, and:

Many synonyms for the variety includes reference to the yellow or golden (gallego, giallo, gelber) colour of its berries.

Under the section for Muscat of Alexandria, it lists both Moscatel de Setúbal and Moscatel Graúdo as names for that variety in Portugal.

I guess that puts us back at square one, not knowing whether there is any difference between 1875 Graudo labeled and not-Graudo labeled 1875 Moscatel from D'Oliveiras (aside from when they were bottled).
I'll contact Mannie Berk, and let you know the inside scoop.

I finally got around to contacting Mannie Berk about these 1875 D'Oliveiras Moscatel Graudo bottles, and this was the emailed response:

"I have a couple bottles, but since I haven't visited the island in two years, I haven't had the chance to ask what the story is. But I know it's a different wine. Sorry I can't tell you more."

I guess it remains a mystery.

Hi there!

Mystery solved!

Was at Oliveira's yesterday and enquired about the 1875 Moscatel vs. Graudo.

Here is what I have been educated:

"Moscatel" is now a PDO (Protected designation of origin) for wines that come from mainland Portugal (I guess even more precisely from Setubal, but I don't know) and that if a Moscatel wine from Madeira is being newly marketed (a current year' wine, or an old wine like the 1875 filled into bottles now) it has to have the distintion Graudo added.

So, the previously bottled 1875 Moscatels stay with the initial IVBAB/IVM paper seal and stencelling whereas recently bottled 1875 Moscatels have the "Graudo" added and will be (my guess) IVBAM sealed exclusively. But: wine is the same, Graudos will be those that were longer in cask, so it will implicitely be possible to get an idea if bottled sooner or later (besides the other indications that you have).

Hope this helps

Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks so much for seeing this through to the end, and getting the real, if unromantic, answer.
I was getting sort of antsy, so I opened the bottle, as well as a bottle of 1920 Cossart Malmsey. I brought them to a small wine-dinner, to have with some simple baked desserts. I served the sublime Mamlsey first, and followed it with the ridiculous Moscatel Graudo. The Cossart took away everyone's breath- heavenly. Then came the D'Oliveiras, and we were all blown away; who says Moscatel has no acidity?!!??? The guests all asked for second pours...and then thirds. They probably would have finished it, if I hadn't whisked it off the table.
This is a fabulously complete bottling.
I can't recommend it highly enough.

Thanks again,
Jim

Hi Jim,
the 20 is from Faja dos Padres the 75 now VERY expensive ex-cellars, I'm priced out...
Glad to hear you're drinking and that everybody in your party enjoyed.
Since times have changed it will be possible for Europeans to travel to US again, maybe there will be a chabce next year to set up a gathering?!
Cheers
Andy

Great info Andreas!
I opened one of the 1920 Cossarts for Mario Fernandes when he visited the States a couple years ago.

If you're making a stop in NY, I'm happy to share some glasses of Madeira.

We stayed in Faja for 3 nice nights.
Unfortunately things have changed a little bit there.
Recently tasted a HMB Terrantez together with a 20 Cossart Malvasia...the undated HMB blow us away...

The undated HMB is thought to be 1862.