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Solera vs. Vintage Madeira

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:42 am
by Roy Hersh
One thing that has always baffled me is the differential in pricing for Solera Madeira vs. what is laid out for Vintage Madeira. Please trust that I do understand the difference in their production methods and even the inherent cost differential incurred by the producer.

That said, the difference is not like a Colheita vs. Vintage Port. The innate cost of the initial wine has little bearing to today's bottle cost for consumers. In fact, why should it have any?

When tasting (even when not bling) Vintage and Solera Madeiras in a lineup of 3-20 bottles, do people say to themselves: "well this is just a Solera bottle and it won't be as good as this Vintage Madeira I'm trying next"? Who cares. Personally, not me! What I do care about is how the wine smells, tastes and leaves me feeling. In my lineup last night while drinking and then having a friend tell me afterwards what the auction pricing was going for, I had to laugh when fondly bidding farewell to my last sip of a phenomenal Solera. Here was a stunning 96 point experience yet it was not a Vintage Madeira. Did I care? Not in the least.

Now go back and look at VM vs. Solera pricing and tell me if it makes any real sense in today's marketplace. Your thoughts?

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:57 pm
by Peter Reutter
I remember Broadbent writing somewhere about Solera Madeiras: "...often the better value." and from the recent prices at auctions (not knowing the NYC prices yet) i can only say he was damned right.

Of course there will be mediocre and even bad Solera wines, but the 10 to 15 Madeira Soleras I had so far have all been very pleasant to drink, some of them even excellent and their prices -compared to Vintage Madeiras- were very fair being about 1/3 to 1/2 of the Vintage price from the same year.

There are some very good Madeira Soleras still out there and I feel that some of them are among the last real bargains to be made when it comes to Madeira wine. You just have to resist the thought that they are somehow inferior, since they have been "made" (to some degree) by man and not by nature. But when you consider all the influence man has on the Vintage Madeiras, like time in wood, choice of the casks, the decision when to transfer to demijohns, how often refreshing is done and so on, then I think that man's influence is not so small as one might first think.

And doesn't it in the end simply come down to whether you like the wine or not?

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:16 pm
by Alan Gardner
I think this might also be relevant to a post about the 1899 Terrantez.
Everybody seems to agree that this is a 'strange phenomenon' - why was there Terrantez in 1899 but almost nothing else? Also it is pretty well agreed that there were no terrantez grapes in madeira at that time (OK maybe a vine or two) - Phylloxera had wiped them all out and nobody was replanting a quirky varietal with a low yield and temperamental flowering/budding.
My "theory" has always been that this was an older wine in barrel that was 'topped up with Bual' in 1899 - the crop was so low around then anyway, that not much wine was being produced, so why not just add to existing barrels?
So technically, I've always viewed this as a 'blend of different years' or what is essentially a solera (as it was then, given the lack of technology/standards). And it was this theorized 'topping up' that gives the 1899 its lively fruit - it's always tasted (to me) much fresher (and more complex) than other Terrantez's from the later 1800's.
Which sort of puts me in the camp that supports the 'value theory' for Solera's. Or alternatively that the late 1800's madeiras are possibly the finest around (but mustn't say too much as I may be outbid at auction!).

HOWEVER, I've been able to compare the 1834, 1863 and 1870 vintage vs solera years and there the concentration and complexity in the vintage madeiras totally outclasses the soleras (which are much lighter).
So, as always, it's what's in the bottle that counts. If only we could 'try before we buy'.

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:37 pm
by Marco D.
Alan Gardner wrote:My "theory" has always been that this was an older wine in barrel that was 'topped up with Bual' in 1899 - the crop was so low around then anyway, that not much wine was being produced, so why not just add to existing barrels?
Interesting theory. The one 1899 Terrantez I had was a Welsh (with a AO-SM marking) which was distinctly sweeter than most other Terrantez I've had. Of course, it could have been a Terrantez vinified in a sweeter style... or... :?:

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:04 am
by Reidar Andersen
I have no theory about the 1899 Terrantez, but I have myself a couple a bottles of HM Borges 1899 Terrantez and the closest vintage AFTER that is my 1905 Terrantez from A. Barros which I found in a shop in Funchal a couple of years ago.

Reidar

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:21 pm
by Heather Hathwell
You beat me by a few days apparently. I was there in December 2005 and no such Terrantez from A Barros could be found..... I fondly remember his "father's" (read, NV) Terrantez, and it was sublime (sadly none is left at least at A Barros. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't turn over every stone and look in every corner next trip to Madeira). I look forward to notes when you finally decide to open it.