Let's talk Auction Prices!

[Lucas S]

I have been studying the auctions with a focus on Zachy's to start and periodically have various questions and observations bouncing around in my head and this will be a thread to collect similar thoughts for anybody that wants to jump in.

I will also post deals and opportunities which I find but won't be buying or bidding on.

One observation is that the NY Zachy's sells almost exclusively VPs from most of the Fladgate and Symington brands, with a little bit of Noval and Niepoort sprinkled in. They'll sell a 1912 Taylor ($620) and 9 separate lots on separate dates of 1948 Taylor (~$750), but god knows if they will ever sell even one post-1990 Sandeman or Ramos Pinto. Quinta ports other than Vesuvio are few and far between.

From most expensive to cheapest, the most sold lots here are Taylor, Fonseca, Dow, Graham, Warre's.

Many 1977 lots are sold and '77 is a fairly representative year for the price trend.
Note that most hammers fell in the middle of the ranges here and these include Buyer's Premium.
1977:
Fonseca 134-249 (~$155 usually, $249 is a bit of an outlier)
Taylor 112-145
Graham 74-114
Dow 72-99
Warre's 68-82

1994 is a similar trend:
Taylor 97-149
Fonseca 88-133
Dow's 56-88
Graham's 53-79
Warre's 47-50

And this trend applies to the 80s as well, with Warre's and Dow's at the bottom below $52, and the the other three fetching roughly the same in $65-90 range.

[LOUISSS J]

When you say a bottle sells for $100 does that include fees and taxes or do we have to add them (so the $100 is actually $138).
No matter your answer the prices you show are all bargains for me.

[Glenn E.]

In the US prices do not include sales tax. That can vary pretty substantially, but generally doesn't go much higher than 10%.

Depending on your area, you may or may not also have to add in alcohol taxes.

[Lucas S]

As I posted, the buyer's premium is included so there are no additional fees. Only a 8% state sales tax on top of those numbers, for the "out the door price" if you are going to pick up the lots. I assume domestic shipping would be another $5-8 per bottle if you buy a case.

The prices are decent overall, but you have to remember these are auction ports, so a lot of those 70s and 80s bottles will have signs of old seepage, top shoulder fill levels, etc. And many of these are case or half-case lots, and not everyone wants to buy a full case (although I can't imagine why not! ).

As a general rule, 1 to 3 bottle lots tend to sell for significantly more money per bottle, at least at this auction house. So while the 1994 Taylor may be bought for $100 in a case, it will nearly always go for $150 as a single bottle.

The one caveat to this rule is mixed lots, which are typically 3-bottle lots of different ports. These, I have found to often be good deals as there is usually one bottle in the mixed lot that is quite valuable such as 1960s Port and the whole lot will hammer for say, $149. Or there will be three similarly aged ports but from different producers/quintas so some buyers don't bid. Here is one such lot from March of this year,

'83 Graham, '85 Fonseca, '87 Niepoort hammered for $174 which is $58/bottle.

[Yev Nyden]

In my experience, sales tax can play an important role in the final price. For example, auctions taking place in Delaware don't add sales tax, which makes the price more appealing. However, the auction houses are not allowed to ship from DE, so arranging shipping via a shipping agent might reduce the 'sales tax win'. I have not found a way to buy at a European auction w/o the sales tax / VAT but the prices are still lower. If you have a way to deliver the wines to the US, it might present an interesting buying opportunity. In my experience, it only "works" for wines costing $200+ a bottle.

Wine Market Journal has a ton of information on the auction prices in the US and abroad although accessing that information is not free. For the Fonseca 1977 VP the average price went up quite a bit in 2020-2021 ($200+) but a 'dump' of this position in 2022 brought the price down quite a bit (volume more than doubled). Other VPs of this vintage show a similar 'anomaly' but the overall trend for all is still upwards looking from 2010 to 2022. Cheeper VPs seem to have a stronger upward trend. 1994 VPs of different houses have different dynamic of the average price but overall the trajectory is looking up (from 2010). VPs from the 80s are an interesting buy given a strangely low price point, and you can buy 1985 and 1983 at truly bargain prices. While 1983 is of questionable quality, some 1985 VPs could be a great addition to your cellar.

I wonder why Fonseca 1977 (the hundred pointer) is not "skyrocketing". Perhaps, there is still a great stock out there and the owners are eager to sell as the price starts to trend up. The retail of this VP in the US is $230+ where I think the price should get at some point when the 'old investor' stock dwindles down. Buy while you can? :)

[Eric Menchen]

1977 Fonseca was awarded 100 points by Wine Spectator long ago, and Suckling has given it 100 points since (e.g. 2016). I think this has driven its price above what it should be. It is a nice wine, but for my $, I'd rather by 1970 or 1985 Fonseca.

[Glenn E.]

1977 Fonseca was awarded 100 points by Wine Spectator long ago, and Suckling has given it 100 points since (e.g. 2016). I think this has driven its price above what it should be. It is a nice wine, but for my $, I'd rather by 1970 or 1985 Fonseca.

Agreed. 1970 Fonseca is (at least to me) clearly better and even though it is older it is often less expensive because of the 1977's 100-point score.

1985 is the real value, though. Get it for less than $100 while you can!

[Andy Velebil]

Auction pricing for Port is all over the map in recent years. So much so, it's just a rough guideline for me now. Sometimes you get, say, a 1985 Graham's for a bargain then the next auction the price is off the charts comparatively. I have yet to figure out why it bounces around so much for Port as compared to other wines.

[Lucas S]

A few attractive deals on newer Ports I found recently,

2016 Smith Woodhouse VP $47 (in a case of 6) on Pre-Arrival
https://www.saratogawine.com/Smith-Wood ... 750ml.html
2016 Quinta de Roriz VP $49 (in a case of 6) on Pre-Arrival
https://www.saratogawine.com/Quinta-De- ... 0ml-1.html

2017 Maynard's LBV $14.16 (or $13.88 in 12-case)
https://www.saratogawine.com/Maynard-s- ... 750ml.html
One of the cheapest LBVs in America right now, I bought this one. Haven't opened it yet, will update this post once I try it soon.

JJ Buckley still has the 2015 Cockburn VP $40
And the 2011 Wiese and Krohn Quinta do Retiro Novo $50 (2 bottles left)

They also have several collectible larger format Ports, the standout deals being:
2017 Croft Magnum $125 (and the regular for $60)
https://www.jjbuckley.com/wine/2017-cro ... -508-1500/
2017 Croft 3L Double Magnum $289
2017 Croft 6L Imperial $585
2017 Taylor 3L Double Magnum $335

And speaking of collectibles,
2017 Niepoort VP 3L Double Magnum $400 (NYC only)
https://www.morrellwine.com/wines/Niepo ... w9009885oe

[Glenn E.]

And speaking of collectibles,
2017 Niepoort VP 3L Double Magnum $400 (NYC only)
https://www.morrellwine.com/wines/Niepo ... w9009885oe

That's an amazing VP, which makes $400 for a double mag an incredible deal! Too bad it is NYC only. :-(

[Moses Botbol]

Auctions aren't what they use to be. NY based auctions nickel and dime you to death with fees, taxing, shipping. If the economy continues as it is, auctions should be become a better value. I have already noticed increased consignments of the "first to go wines".

[Mike J. W.]

Auctions aren't what they use to be. NY based auctions nickel and dime you to death with fees, taxing, shipping. If the economy continues as it is, auctions should be become a better value. I have already noticed increased consignments of the "first to go wines".

Acker moved to Delaware, so the 8.375% sales tax went away. That puts Zachy's at a severe disadvantage to Acker. For me (not for you since you're in MA), their warehouse in Delaware is less than a 2 hour drive. I go down for the day to visit a friend and swing by there to pick up my winnings. I have a bunch of bottles in storage there to pick up, but I'm waiting on some deliveries from their Hong Kong auctions which seem to take forever.

[Lucas S]

For EU folks:

A German auction has a few rare ports going on the block tomorrow (28th):

1966 Niepoort Colheita €120
1940 Royal Oporto Colheita (b. 1992 looks like) €160
1934 Burmester "Late Bottled" €240 (I didn't know they had LBVs back then?!)
1920 Burmester Reserve Ruby/orColheita €240
1982 Krohn VP €40
And also a regular 1970 Grahams VP €150
https://www.henrys.de/index.php?pc=cata ... ng=en&pg=1
It's also on AuctionZip:
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-cata ... A644505AE9

There is also a whole bunch of old stuff in this Italian Auction on Nov 14. Looking at these makes me wish I had JDAW's book.. Not sure if any are worth drinking but looking at the pictures and seeing some fully translucent VPs beside opaque ones of the same year is fun .
1944&1951 RCV Colheitas (b. 1972)
1955&1958 Burmester Colheitas (b. 1974)
1965 Malvedos
1967 Roeda, Martinez, Pocas, Noval LBV, Rocha
1970 Burmester, Messias Cachao, Croft, Borges, RCV Sibio, Pocas
1971 Taylor LBVs, Noval "House Reserves"
1974 Diez LBVs
1975 Noval LBVs
1978 Roeda
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-cata ... ?pageNum=4

[Lucas S]

WineBid added a boatload of VPs this week.

The 1970s Ports seem overpriced to me but there is also rare stuff at interesting prices like,
1965 Guimaraens for $115
1960 Cockburn $105
1963 Croft $140
1937 Noval $435,
Old LBVs - 64 Dow, 75 Noval, and 78 Taylor. I really don't know what these are worth $60-65 seems high but perhaps not.
and quite a few Vintages of Quarles Harris.

I don't know if the 1995 Malvedos is good but they added a bunch of 'em for $35 as well. As well as the 2016 Romaneira for $30 which went unsold last week despite a $5 price cut. There is also "2013" Vesuvios for $40 but according to the picture, they might actually be a stealthy 2011 which seems like a good deal if that's the case.

Btw John if you see this, I bought a case of the Rozes (1LBV,1LBV,4,3,3) because they were about to sell out, finally. It was simply too cheap to pass up. I will save the 5 for a vertical sometime. I bought out the remaining 4 of the 2000 VPs and then someone else bought out the ~8 2007 VPs. So now there is just a few of the 2000 LBV, and two cases each of the 2003 VP and LBV.

[Glenn E.]

Do note that the 1937 Noval is a Colheita, not a VP, and that it was bottled in 1978.

I had a 1937 Noval Colheita that was bottled in 1997. It was interesting and fun to share, but clearly not at its best. I also had a 1934 Dalva that was bottled in the '70s (1972 IIRC), and it also did not show well. Even for me, that's just too much time in bottle for most tawny Ports.

So I suspect that a '37 Noval bottled in 1978 would be even further from its best than the one I had, so ... buyer beware.

[John M.]

Btw John if you see this, I bought a case of the Rozes (1LBV,1LBV,4,3,3) because they were about to sell out, finally. It was simply too cheap to pass up. I will save the 5 for a vertical sometime. I bought out the remaining 4 of the 2000 VPs and then someone else bought out the ~8 2007 VPs. So now there is just a few of the 2000 LBV, and two cases each of the 2003 VP and LBV.

Good Job Lucas!! A Rozes by any other name is still a Rozes!

[Mike J. W.]

Do note that the 1937 Noval is a Colheita, not a VP, and that it was bottled in 1978.

I had a 1937 Noval Colheita that was bottled in 1997. It was interesting and fun to share, but clearly not at its best. I also had a 1934 Dalva that was bottled in the '70s (1972 IIRC), and it also did not show well. Even for me, that's just too much time in bottle for most tawny Ports.

So I suspect that a '37 Noval bottled in 1978 would be even further from its best than the one I had, so ... buyer beware.

I had a'37 Noval Colheita bottled in '96 this past summer and it was quite tasty. Strangely enough it was even better on days 2 and 3.

[Andy Velebil]

Gonna side with Glenn on the old bottled ‘37 Noval’s (Da Silva’s) Colheita. They’re fun and good but not in the same league as the newer bottled ones.

[Glenn E.]

Do note that the 1937 Noval is a Colheita, not a VP, and that it was bottled in 1978.

I had a 1937 Noval Colheita that was bottled in 1997. It was interesting and fun to share, but clearly not at its best. I also had a 1934 Dalva that was bottled in the '70s (1972 IIRC), and it also did not show well. Even for me, that's just too much time in bottle for most tawny Ports.

So I suspect that a '37 Noval bottled in 1978 would be even further from its best than the one I had, so ... buyer beware.

I had a'37 Noval Colheita bottled in '96 this past summer and it was quite tasty. Strangely enough it was even better on days 2 and 3.

Don't get me wrong... the one I had was also quite tasty, but it was not the 97-point experience it should have been. At the price you pay for a 1937 Noval (or Kopke), I want it to be amazing.

[Lucas S]

Here are some interesting lots this week I won't be bidding on:

TCWC has these expiring in 26 hours:
1996 Vesuvio x4 $40 + bp
https://www.tcwc.com/productview/4874
2005 Niepoort x4 $35 + bp
https://www.tcwc.com/productview/1741
1985 Real Vinicola $50 + bp

Heritage Auction - Closes in 3 days:
1994 Dow case $475 ($584.25 inc BP)
1985 Fonseca case, $575 ($707.25 inc BP)
https://wine.ha.com/itm/port-madeira-mi ... ion-120115

WineBid has a full case of the 2003 Infantado for $15 which I might bid on 2 or 3 bottles of this but wouldn't want any more than that.
1997 Infantado x8 for $25 ea
1997 Silval x9 for $30 ea. I may bid on one Silval just to try.

Zachy's closing on the 19th, has 3 cases of the '85 Fonseca $700 min (+ 24.5% BP)
'85 Graham's cases for $550 min
'85 Dow's cases for $500 min
Also, a bargain case each of 1992 and 1994 Delaforce, which is tempting at ($320/300) not sure which one is better or if worth it.

I might bid on two other smaller lots at Zachy's, pm me if you bid, I'd be happy to split or even lay off.