For The Love Of Port

The Tappit Hen vs. Tregnum, the photo showed of the Graham's 2021 Stone Terraces is the former. Learn the difference between these two shaped Port bottles, as written in the blog of Berry Bros. & Rudd:

https://blog.bbr.com/2021/11/29/the-tap ... uh3rWVED2c

Are they sure a Tregnum is three 75cl bottles? I have a couple and thought it was 2.5 bottles in total?

Roy Hersh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:46 pm The Tappit Hen vs. Tregnum, the photo showed of the Graham's 2021 Stone Terraces is the former. Learn the difference between these two shaped Port bottles, as written in the blog of Berry Bros. & Rudd:

https://blog.bbr.com/2021/11/29/the-tap ... uh3rWVED2c

If I read the article correctly, the photo of the current Graham's is not a "true" tappit hen as it does not have the big bulb on the top (see attached Warre's pic of a true Tappit Hen). Instead it is a tregnum based on its bottle shape. I would imagine one could get a bottle manufacturer to produce the old style one, but I assume it would be very expensive to do so. Side note, it is illegal to sell a true Tappit Hen in the USA, as there is no 2.1 or 2.25L amount allowed for wine bottles (I heard this may change, but I don't think so yet as I just looked and there is no 2.1-2.25L sizing allowed).

TTB regulations https://www.ttb.gov/labeling-wine/wine- ... t-contents

I check the two tregnums I own ('63 Dow) and they are 1800 ML.

These days, a tregnum is 3 x 75cl bottles. Magnum = 2, Tregnum = 3. Ergo, 2.25 liters.

Some of the old(er) squat bottles were 2.1 liters, not 2.25. This probably derives from the fact that England - at least for a while - used bottles that were 70 cl, not 75 cl. 3 x 70 cl bottles is 2.1 liters. (I think they may still use 70 cl for hard alcohol?)

And of course there are always oddities, especially before the EU came into being. I suspect that Moses's 1800ml bottles from 1963 are just that... oddities, not something standard that was used regularly.

For me the name difference purely describes the bottle shape. A proper Tappit Hen is the short, squat bottle like the one in Andy's picture, and it has a bulge in the neck. A tregnum is just an enlarged (3x) regular bottle shape.

But that leaves us with a conundrum. The new Symington Family Estates 2.25 liter bottles have that bulge in the neck, but they are all tall and otherwise shaped like regular bottles. So are they tregnums or Tappit Hens? My memory may be faulty, but I believe that I've seen the Symingtons use both names interchangeably in their literature, at least for these new bottles.

I lean toward calling the new bottles tregnums because a) that's now the "standardized" name for a 2.25 liter bottle, and b) Tappit Hens of old were short, squat bottles. Despite the bulge in the neck, these new bottles don't look like Tappit Hens to me. They're modern, as is the name tregnum, so that's the nomenclature that I choose to use for them.

Glenn,
The neck shape doesn't have anything to do with a traditional TH. It's the very top of it. That large overgrown rounded bulb. Also, the old ones were handmade and were not always exactly the same volume. They ranged from about 2L to 2.3L, if memory serves me.

Glenn E. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:12 pm I suspect that Moses's 1800ml bottles from 1963 are just that... oddities, not something standard that was used regularly.

Do you have any 60's tregnums that are 2.25L?

Only on this website can we have this debate.

Andy Velebil wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:42 pm Glenn,
The neck shape doesn't have anything to do with a traditional TH. It's the very top of it. That large overgrown rounded bulb. Also, the old ones were handmade and were not always exactly the same volume. They ranged from about 2L to 2.3L, if memory serves me.

Ah... right, I knew that but got confused while double checking the tregnums that I have. Thanks for the reminder.

So in that case, as far as I'm concerned these new bottles are absolutely tregnums as they have none of the characteristics that I associate with a Tappit Hen.

Moses Botbol wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:14 pm

Glenn E. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:12 pm I suspect that Moses's 1800ml bottles from 1963 are just that... oddities, not something standard that was used regularly.

Do you have any 60's tregnums that are 2.25L?

Do you have any bottles from the 60s that were actually called tregnums when they were released?

My understanding is that "tregnum" is a relatively new term.

Glenn wrote:
For me the name difference purely describes the bottle shape. A proper Tappit Hen is the short, squat bottle like the one in Andy's picture, and it has a bulge in the neck. A tregnum is just an enlarged (3x) regular bottle shape.

I always thought it was the bulge in the neck that made it a TH. But the BB&R article explains it as "... the Tappit Hen has a knob on top with an elegant curve reminiscent of a hen’s crest."

Then again looking at the large format (Tappit Hen) of the Graham's ST, it doesn't have the kind of knob on top, that Andy's photo depicts, which I have seen too, but the Symington's list the large format Stone Terraces, as coming in Tappit Hens, not mentioning Tregnums.

So who/what to believe.