A few years ago at Thanksgiving, was served a wonderful glass of a liquid I'd never experienced before. Though I like details, never did get them on this splendid juice. Months later, trying to revisit that exquisite taste I numbly tried a $ 20 LBV and was naturally disappointed. So, I tried to get a little education from the internet and next tried a Sandemans 20 Tawny and was quickly hooked. I'd found something similar to the experience of the Thanksgiving glass. The port was delicate and multi-flavored, smooth, sweet and rich. A friend and I compared it later with a Warres 10 and I could discern a BIG difference. Recently, as a special occasion, I took the first step into Vintage Ports. After more reading, we tried a Warres 77 and I was a bit disappointed. Following more reading at this site, I partially understand why I was disappointed. I strained the wine, poured it back into the bottle immediately and had served it promptly with zero decanting time. So, thats my port story to date. There was a very helpful post here that suggested the 83 vintage tastes great now. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm not afraid to spend to get something great but, I like value and an underdog. I'm looking for Ports to drink now. I think I understand the cellaring idea and will ease into that. Perhaps a few bottles of the 2000. What about older vintages that I could sit on for maybe a few years, and others that would be ready in say 5 years, 10 years and on. I guess I want to enjoy great Port now as well as set myself up with a small collection of bottles that will keep maturing and providing ready port year after year. Who wouldn't ?! Thanks for any help!
DKK
New to Port and FTLOP
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
Dan,
Let me be the first to welcome you here. I hope others will chime in with their suggestions too. Before I answer your questions, please do me the favor of going back to your profile and adding your first and last name to the area where these will be posted here in the Forum posts. That would be much appreciated.
Here are a few value wines to put away for a few years or drink now:
1995 Quinta do Crasto Vintage Port, 1999 Quinta do Portal Vintage Port, 1985 Fonseca (drink or hold) or Burmester, 1987 Quinta de Vargellas, 1980 Graham's and Dow, 1983 Dow, Cockburn and Gould Campbell, 1970 Niepoort and Graham's, 1977 Dow and Taylor.
That should be a great beginning at various price points that are quite affordable ... all under $150 USD, most under $100 and the majority under $85.
Take a peak in the Marketplace Forum here on this website and look at some of the prices offered by retailers that are VERY reliable.
Let me be the first to welcome you here. I hope others will chime in with their suggestions too. Before I answer your questions, please do me the favor of going back to your profile and adding your first and last name to the area where these will be posted here in the Forum posts. That would be much appreciated.
Here are a few value wines to put away for a few years or drink now:
1995 Quinta do Crasto Vintage Port, 1999 Quinta do Portal Vintage Port, 1985 Fonseca (drink or hold) or Burmester, 1987 Quinta de Vargellas, 1980 Graham's and Dow, 1983 Dow, Cockburn and Gould Campbell, 1970 Niepoort and Graham's, 1977 Dow and Taylor.
That should be a great beginning at various price points that are quite affordable ... all under $150 USD, most under $100 and the majority under $85.
Take a peak in the Marketplace Forum here on this website and look at some of the prices offered by retailers that are VERY reliable.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Dan
Welcome to the forum and to the world of port...one which is not easy to escape from :twisted:
What to start with as your second vintage port....hmm. If I had to choose one wine as the one to get you hooked, I would probably go for the Quinta do Vesuvio 1994 today. Not really an underdog as it is from a great vintage and from a producer that is becoming more and more recognised as a quality producer.
Its a wine that's not overly expensive but when I had a bottle a few weeks back, it absolutely blew me away. It was amazing to drink today and will develop superbly over the next 20+ years.
If you do decide to try it, make sure you leave it in the decanter for at least 10-12 hours before tucking in. (I posted a series of tasting notes on this wine when I drank it, to show how the wine changed in taste over the 4 days it was open.)
However, I have also recently seen some posts from people who have been discussing which of the 1983 "underdog" ports are the best - there is some talk that one of these underdogs is actually the best wine for current drinking from this vintage.
Alex
Welcome to the forum and to the world of port...one which is not easy to escape from :twisted:
What to start with as your second vintage port....hmm. If I had to choose one wine as the one to get you hooked, I would probably go for the Quinta do Vesuvio 1994 today. Not really an underdog as it is from a great vintage and from a producer that is becoming more and more recognised as a quality producer.
Its a wine that's not overly expensive but when I had a bottle a few weeks back, it absolutely blew me away. It was amazing to drink today and will develop superbly over the next 20+ years.
If you do decide to try it, make sure you leave it in the decanter for at least 10-12 hours before tucking in. (I posted a series of tasting notes on this wine when I drank it, to show how the wine changed in taste over the 4 days it was open.)
However, I have also recently seen some posts from people who have been discussing which of the 1983 "underdog" ports are the best - there is some talk that one of these underdogs is actually the best wine for current drinking from this vintage.
Alex
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Stuart Chatfield
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:08 am
- Location: London, England
Welcome!
I'd suggest Cockburns 1994. Cockburns was a legend before the war but has gone through an indifferent period (I think due to ownership changes)and has gone out of fashion.
Looking at the prices here in the UK, no-body seems to have noticed that with the 94 it has gone straight back to the first division. As someone who does not normally drink younger port, I can't resist this one and I reckon it will go on and on. It is very good value (about GBP25 here - roughly USD50)
Just about any '77 is a safe bet. A legendary year just getting to a 20-year plateau of perfection. Taylor and Dow is probably best - I agree with Roy - but the 2nd string ports of Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse really performed that year too.
I'd suggest Cockburns 1994. Cockburns was a legend before the war but has gone through an indifferent period (I think due to ownership changes)and has gone out of fashion.
Looking at the prices here in the UK, no-body seems to have noticed that with the 94 it has gone straight back to the first division. As someone who does not normally drink younger port, I can't resist this one and I reckon it will go on and on. It is very good value (about GBP25 here - roughly USD50)
Just about any '77 is a safe bet. A legendary year just getting to a 20-year plateau of perfection. Taylor and Dow is probably best - I agree with Roy - but the 2nd string ports of Gould Campbell and Smith Woodhouse really performed that year too.
Stuart Chatfield London, England
Dan,
Please do come back to the forum and let us know what you think of the wine when you drink it.
If you've just bought the bottle(s) and plan to open it at Christmas then please be sure to stand it upright for a couple of days before decanting it.
Also, my experience is that its better to decant as much as you can before the sediment starts to move in the bottle. Once the sediment moves I then strain / filter the rest into a separate glass. I do find that if I strain rather than decant then the wine has a different and more bitter flavour from the very fine sediment that passes through the filter or picks up from the filter paper.
Alex
Please do come back to the forum and let us know what you think of the wine when you drink it.
If you've just bought the bottle(s) and plan to open it at Christmas then please be sure to stand it upright for a couple of days before decanting it.
Also, my experience is that its better to decant as much as you can before the sediment starts to move in the bottle. Once the sediment moves I then strain / filter the rest into a separate glass. I do find that if I strain rather than decant then the wine has a different and more bitter flavour from the very fine sediment that passes through the filter or picks up from the filter paper.
Alex
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Derek T.
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:02 pm
- Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom - UK
- Contact:
Dan,
Stand the bottle up for at least 24 hours before decanting to allow all of the loose sediment to fall to the bottom. Some may remain stuck to the side of the bottle but this is OK.
Open the bottle carefully without disturbing the sediment. Pour slowly into the decanter in a single pour until you begin to see small particles of sediment coming through.
If the bottle has been corrently stored it will have been lying down with it's label facing upwards. The reason for this is that you then know that any sediment that has stuck to the bottle will be directly opposite the label. You should decant label side up so that the sediment stays at the bottom of the wine whilst pouring. If you do it with the label down then some sediment may fall into the wine and end up in your decanter.
It will take you 2 or 3 attempts at this before you get it right so don't start with an expensive one!
If you prove to yourself that you are in the category of people who are no good at decanting then admit defeat and buy a good quality stainless steel decanting funnel/filter. Screwpull are a good brand.
Derek
Stand the bottle up for at least 24 hours before decanting to allow all of the loose sediment to fall to the bottom. Some may remain stuck to the side of the bottle but this is OK.
Open the bottle carefully without disturbing the sediment. Pour slowly into the decanter in a single pour until you begin to see small particles of sediment coming through.
If the bottle has been corrently stored it will have been lying down with it's label facing upwards. The reason for this is that you then know that any sediment that has stuck to the bottle will be directly opposite the label. You should decant label side up so that the sediment stays at the bottom of the wine whilst pouring. If you do it with the label down then some sediment may fall into the wine and end up in your decanter.
It will take you 2 or 3 attempts at this before you get it right so don't start with an expensive one!
If you prove to yourself that you are in the category of people who are no good at decanting then admit defeat and buy a good quality stainless steel decanting funnel/filter. Screwpull are a good brand.
Derek
If you prove to yourself that you are in the category of people who are no good at decanting then admit defeat and buy a good quality stainless steel decanting funnel/filter.
Dan,
Derek offered some great advice in his last post. Also purchase some inexpensive cheese cloth to line the inside of the Port decanting funnel. It will not only hold back the big pieces of sediment, but will catch the really fine particulate as well.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
"corked"
Corked is a term I've seen quite often on the Port sites. I know its not good. My understanding is the wine is spoiled and the cork is to blame. I know much more about Sammy Sosa's corked baseball bat so, would someone please tell me more about corked bottles and how to spot one?
Recent Port experience: A friend and I enjoyed a bottle of the Taylors 20 Tawny the other night. Mid bottle we ate dinner and following I picked 92 Smith Woodhouse LBV and he, a 10 Malsmey Madeira. Didn't much care for the LBV but, the Madeira was so nice. Christmas Day I decanted, in a Rube Goldberg manner, an 83 Grahams. I set the decanter outside where it was in the mid 60's degrees. About 6 hours later I tried a glass and was quite pleased. I'm just a beginner so, raw tasting notes. I now know what a mouthfeel is. Very mellow, dense and smooth. Almost no bite or alcohol taste. Hours later we traveled the decanter to a friends house where it was considerably warmer, next to candles etc. 9, 10 hours on the friends really enjoyed the wine although I think it got a bit more alcohol tasting. Not quite as smooth as when it was cooler. Anyway it was great ! Thanks for everyones help ! Today I ordered 3 bottles of Quinta do Crasto 1999 LBV which, at $21 per seems a nice price. Thanks again for any corked info.
DKK
Recent Port experience: A friend and I enjoyed a bottle of the Taylors 20 Tawny the other night. Mid bottle we ate dinner and following I picked 92 Smith Woodhouse LBV and he, a 10 Malsmey Madeira. Didn't much care for the LBV but, the Madeira was so nice. Christmas Day I decanted, in a Rube Goldberg manner, an 83 Grahams. I set the decanter outside where it was in the mid 60's degrees. About 6 hours later I tried a glass and was quite pleased. I'm just a beginner so, raw tasting notes. I now know what a mouthfeel is. Very mellow, dense and smooth. Almost no bite or alcohol taste. Hours later we traveled the decanter to a friends house where it was considerably warmer, next to candles etc. 9, 10 hours on the friends really enjoyed the wine although I think it got a bit more alcohol tasting. Not quite as smooth as when it was cooler. Anyway it was great ! Thanks for everyones help ! Today I ordered 3 bottles of Quinta do Crasto 1999 LBV which, at $21 per seems a nice price. Thanks again for any corked info.
DKK
Dan,
If no-one else posts a reply to the question about a corked wine over the next day or so then post a new thread on the topic (again in port basics) and I will do my best to reply. I know that there are others on this forum who would be able to give you a comprehensive answer, but I will try in no-one else steps forward.
Alex
If no-one else posts a reply to the question about a corked wine over the next day or so then post a new thread on the topic (again in port basics) and I will do my best to reply. I know that there are others on this forum who would be able to give you a comprehensive answer, but I will try in no-one else steps forward.
Alex
"Corked" is an issue that effects the wines at the winery level in two ways. One is caused by the use of chlorine bleach during the sanitzation process at a winery. The other, which is what 99% of people think of is when a defective cork has been infected by TCA or trichlor anisole. This is a nasty little compound that turns corks bad and ruins the wines in the bottle from the day of contact, at the winery.
How to spot one?
There is no way to spot one until a bottle is opened because there is no visual method possible for checking the presence of TCA in a bottle of wine. Smelling the removed cork does not do it either, although sometimes in a badly affected cork one can smell it there. Otherwise, TCA can smell like a musty old basement, wet cardboard or newspaper that has been lying around or some say, stinky gym socks. The other way you can tell if a bottle is corked is that there is either NO aromatics or NO fruit showing at all on the nose/palate. Some people are more sensitive than others and usually most wine lovers can detect TCA at a ratio of 5 ppb ... which is parts per BILLION. So it does not take much to be able to sense it. Some people can be even more sensitive and detect even lower amounts. But it takes a couple of times smelling it to understand what to look for. The best way is in tasting groups where you open more bottles and are bound to come across a corked bottle with enough being opened.
Some say that the number of corked bottles is staggering and recite numbers like 2 out of every twelve bottles. Natural cork lovers take the other extreme and say 2-3%. From my experience over the years with all wines, I find that the real number is about 6-8% which is still unacceptable. With vintage Port, I would say over the past 150 cases I have opened or been a part of, a total of 4 cases in 23 years have been corked. That is a smaller ratio, but VP hides corked bottles better (although I believe I am super sensitive to TCA) and the more expensive corks used in Vintage Port are better and go through more elaborate checks before being sold. Is it just coincidence that the vast majority of cork trees and production takes place in Portugal? I don't know if there is any real correllation there to be honest.
I hope this gives you a basic understand of cork tainted by TCA bacteria.
P.S. you are correct that a slightly lower temperature will hide the alcoholic impression of a Port. OTOH, it will also cover up some aromatic and flavor characteristics as well.
How to spot one?
There is no way to spot one until a bottle is opened because there is no visual method possible for checking the presence of TCA in a bottle of wine. Smelling the removed cork does not do it either, although sometimes in a badly affected cork one can smell it there. Otherwise, TCA can smell like a musty old basement, wet cardboard or newspaper that has been lying around or some say, stinky gym socks. The other way you can tell if a bottle is corked is that there is either NO aromatics or NO fruit showing at all on the nose/palate. Some people are more sensitive than others and usually most wine lovers can detect TCA at a ratio of 5 ppb ... which is parts per BILLION. So it does not take much to be able to sense it. Some people can be even more sensitive and detect even lower amounts. But it takes a couple of times smelling it to understand what to look for. The best way is in tasting groups where you open more bottles and are bound to come across a corked bottle with enough being opened.
Some say that the number of corked bottles is staggering and recite numbers like 2 out of every twelve bottles. Natural cork lovers take the other extreme and say 2-3%. From my experience over the years with all wines, I find that the real number is about 6-8% which is still unacceptable. With vintage Port, I would say over the past 150 cases I have opened or been a part of, a total of 4 cases in 23 years have been corked. That is a smaller ratio, but VP hides corked bottles better (although I believe I am super sensitive to TCA) and the more expensive corks used in Vintage Port are better and go through more elaborate checks before being sold. Is it just coincidence that the vast majority of cork trees and production takes place in Portugal? I don't know if there is any real correllation there to be honest.
I hope this gives you a basic understand of cork tainted by TCA bacteria.
P.S. you are correct that a slightly lower temperature will hide the alcoholic impression of a Port. OTOH, it will also cover up some aromatic and flavor characteristics as well.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com