While in Portugal recently, our group had the opportunity to try dozens of fabulous Douro reds. On one particular evening we were with a famous Port winemaker (no names please Mario!) and we discussed the following conundrum:
If Port producers in the Douro are now going to use their best grapes to make a statement with their dry red table wines, will their Port wine suffer in the coming years?
I'd rather hear what you think at this point. This is a very provocative topic that is being discussed throughout the Douro region. So many varied opinions.
Douro Wine Controversy
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
Douro Wine Controversy
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Andy Velebil
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IMHO, YES, Port would suffer if they started to use those great grapes for dry reds.
FWIW, I would much rather have a great bottle of port than a great bottle of red wine from Portugal. There are many other countries where one can get an outstanding red, but NO ONE else in the world makes port like those from Portugal. I have had numerous Austrialian and California ports and they do not even come close to a great VP, or even a SIngle Quinta Vintage Port for that matter.
KEEP THOSE BEST GRAPES FOR PORT :!: :!: :!: :!:
FWIW, I would much rather have a great bottle of port than a great bottle of red wine from Portugal. There are many other countries where one can get an outstanding red, but NO ONE else in the world makes port like those from Portugal. I have had numerous Austrialian and California ports and they do not even come close to a great VP, or even a SIngle Quinta Vintage Port for that matter.
KEEP THOSE BEST GRAPES FOR PORT :!: :!: :!: :!:
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Frederick Blais
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Good topic Roy.
The Douro is close to a big revolution with its red wine. Not long ago there was almost only Ferreira, Ramos Pinto and Cotto who were producing good red wine, the others were mostly table wines from left over.
Is the producer will put their best grapes for Port into wine? I don't think so. Here's my points
1- Lets say Taylor is producing 15 000 cases of Port a year from grade A vineyards. Well if they don't sell them all, they can reduce that number to 10k and use the remaining for wines.
2- Douro wine producer are still experimenting, finding the best site, vineyards, so it would be a great risk to use their best grapes for an uncertain results while they know that it is going to be great with Port.
3- Maybe Single Quinta Port will suffer from that because the great year for Table wine is often not a great one for Port. When the grapes do not get a phenolic maturity high enough for a classic VP, it can do very well with wines. 1995,1996, 2001 and 2004 are the best year from what I've tasted so far for tables wines and none are VP year. The 1997 and 2000 I've tasted were really tasting like port and not like wine.
To conclude, the need to use great grapes, even grade A to produce red wine is there, but they can do it without compromising the quality of VP if they reduce the production of VP and SQVP. That way both products will have high quality. If they keep the production to the same level for VP, well quality will decrease and so the demand, it is not a good way to do business for them.
The Douro is close to a big revolution with its red wine. Not long ago there was almost only Ferreira, Ramos Pinto and Cotto who were producing good red wine, the others were mostly table wines from left over.
Is the producer will put their best grapes for Port into wine? I don't think so. Here's my points
1- Lets say Taylor is producing 15 000 cases of Port a year from grade A vineyards. Well if they don't sell them all, they can reduce that number to 10k and use the remaining for wines.
2- Douro wine producer are still experimenting, finding the best site, vineyards, so it would be a great risk to use their best grapes for an uncertain results while they know that it is going to be great with Port.
3- Maybe Single Quinta Port will suffer from that because the great year for Table wine is often not a great one for Port. When the grapes do not get a phenolic maturity high enough for a classic VP, it can do very well with wines. 1995,1996, 2001 and 2004 are the best year from what I've tasted so far for tables wines and none are VP year. The 1997 and 2000 I've tasted were really tasting like port and not like wine.
To conclude, the need to use great grapes, even grade A to produce red wine is there, but they can do it without compromising the quality of VP if they reduce the production of VP and SQVP. That way both products will have high quality. If they keep the production to the same level for VP, well quality will decrease and so the demand, it is not a good way to do business for them.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
Roy,
You have often posted that VP - even including Single Quinta wines - make up only a fraction of the sales of the port houses. On this basis, how are the sales of the non-VP port wines doing?
Commercially, vintage port is seen by me (a sample of 1 consumer) as being the flagship, high quality wine, of each of the port houses. This is their equivalent of the prestige wine label - but its only produced every 3 years or so. Not even Y'qem is as selective as that.
So waht happens to the best quality grapes in the other years? At present, I suppose they go into single quinta wines and colheitas (and long may they both continue!) and into making up the blending stocks for reserve and ruby wines.
In my mind, it is likely to be these blending stocks that suffer. I have no idea whether the Douro is suffering from overproduction in the way that we have recently been hearing from France, but if they are then a growth in table wines would be an excellent alternative to surplus stocks of blending ports.
So, my personal plea to the port makers as they consider production of table wines would be:
(1) Vintage Port is unique and has not yet been replicated anywhere else in the world. Have faith in consumers, keep the quality of these wines as high as they are and consumers will realise what these wines really represent.
(2) Make more vintage port in response to increased demand. Single quinta ports shipped in all but the worst of years is an excellent way to develop brand loyalty. Look at the impact that Vesuvio is having and the market awareness of Malvedos. Hopefully the margin on these wines is more than would be achieved on a table wine.
(3) Grapes destined for reserve and ruby blends might be usefully diverted away from port production to table wine production, there is more competition for the consumer's money at this level in the market than at the top end. It may be easier to sell a kilo of grapes as a decent/good quality red wine than as a decent/good quality reserve port. (For example, again based on my market survey of 1 child, I can't imagine my children choosing to drink a ruby port over a bacardi breezer - my 10 year old still dislikes my port but will happily sip from a bacardi breezer glass!)
Finally, I will caveat all of this and emphasise that this is purely my own, humble opinion.
Alex
You have often posted that VP - even including Single Quinta wines - make up only a fraction of the sales of the port houses. On this basis, how are the sales of the non-VP port wines doing?
Commercially, vintage port is seen by me (a sample of 1 consumer) as being the flagship, high quality wine, of each of the port houses. This is their equivalent of the prestige wine label - but its only produced every 3 years or so. Not even Y'qem is as selective as that.
So waht happens to the best quality grapes in the other years? At present, I suppose they go into single quinta wines and colheitas (and long may they both continue!) and into making up the blending stocks for reserve and ruby wines.
In my mind, it is likely to be these blending stocks that suffer. I have no idea whether the Douro is suffering from overproduction in the way that we have recently been hearing from France, but if they are then a growth in table wines would be an excellent alternative to surplus stocks of blending ports.
So, my personal plea to the port makers as they consider production of table wines would be:
(1) Vintage Port is unique and has not yet been replicated anywhere else in the world. Have faith in consumers, keep the quality of these wines as high as they are and consumers will realise what these wines really represent.
(2) Make more vintage port in response to increased demand. Single quinta ports shipped in all but the worst of years is an excellent way to develop brand loyalty. Look at the impact that Vesuvio is having and the market awareness of Malvedos. Hopefully the margin on these wines is more than would be achieved on a table wine.
(3) Grapes destined for reserve and ruby blends might be usefully diverted away from port production to table wine production, there is more competition for the consumer's money at this level in the market than at the top end. It may be easier to sell a kilo of grapes as a decent/good quality red wine than as a decent/good quality reserve port. (For example, again based on my market survey of 1 child, I can't imagine my children choosing to drink a ruby port over a bacardi breezer - my 10 year old still dislikes my port but will happily sip from a bacardi breezer glass!)
Finally, I will caveat all of this and emphasise that this is purely my own, humble opinion.
Alex
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Steven Kooij
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Great topic! Some thoughts:
- As I understand, winemakers tend to look for different ripeness levels in grapes to be used for VP and those to be used for dry wine. Those differences might indeed be achieved by different vintage conditions, as Fred pointed out, but also by using different sites / exposures in the same quinta in the same year.
- The Symington family already makes the fantastic dry wine Chryseia from grapes sourced from (amongst others) Bomfim and Vesuvio – without IMO diminishing the quality of the VPs from those estates.
- Now that we can welcome mr. Adrian Bridge as a member of this forum, perhaps he can enlighten us / give us the scoop whether Quinta & Vineyard Bottlers are thinking of entering the market with a dry wine… :)
Fonseca did use to make a dry white (Dom Prior) which was perhaps not too exciting, but a very nice glass nonetheless. However, I think the last vintage made was the ’99.
- I’ve read in an interview with Christian Seely that Noval has made dry wines, but I do not know whether this was just an experiment. I have never seen, let alone tasted a bottle.
- A great example that great VP and great dry wines need not be mutually exclusive is Niepoort, the quality of whose Ports and dry wines have both been constantly climbing.
- As I understand, winemakers tend to look for different ripeness levels in grapes to be used for VP and those to be used for dry wine. Those differences might indeed be achieved by different vintage conditions, as Fred pointed out, but also by using different sites / exposures in the same quinta in the same year.
- The Symington family already makes the fantastic dry wine Chryseia from grapes sourced from (amongst others) Bomfim and Vesuvio – without IMO diminishing the quality of the VPs from those estates.
- Now that we can welcome mr. Adrian Bridge as a member of this forum, perhaps he can enlighten us / give us the scoop whether Quinta & Vineyard Bottlers are thinking of entering the market with a dry wine… :)
Fonseca did use to make a dry white (Dom Prior) which was perhaps not too exciting, but a very nice glass nonetheless. However, I think the last vintage made was the ’99.
- I’ve read in an interview with Christian Seely that Noval has made dry wines, but I do not know whether this was just an experiment. I have never seen, let alone tasted a bottle.
- A great example that great VP and great dry wines need not be mutually exclusive is Niepoort, the quality of whose Ports and dry wines have both been constantly climbing.
There are some reasons for the explosion of Douro red wines, here are some of them:
- the new genaration of winemakers;
- the good grapes that don`t have "beneficio";
- the small price that big companies pay for grapes without "beneficio";
- the interest of winegrowers to have their own wine.
José Mendes
- the new genaration of winemakers;
- the good grapes that don`t have "beneficio";
- the small price that big companies pay for grapes without "beneficio";
- the interest of winegrowers to have their own wine.
José Mendes
Jose,
I completely overlooked the influence of the beneficio - what you say makes a great deal of sense and means that I will worry much less about the impact on the quality and quantity of port wine as the production of table wine grows.
A wider question - does anyone know when the beneficio rules operate? Is it at a vineyard level? If so, does it limit the volume of grapes that can be used from a particular vineyard for port production? Would this mean that increased planting or increased density of planting would mean increased table wine production?
Could the clever port producer increase vineyard production and then use only the best vinifications for port wine production, with the rest of the juice being used for table wine?
Alex
I completely overlooked the influence of the beneficio - what you say makes a great deal of sense and means that I will worry much less about the impact on the quality and quantity of port wine as the production of table wine grows.
A wider question - does anyone know when the beneficio rules operate? Is it at a vineyard level? If so, does it limit the volume of grapes that can be used from a particular vineyard for port production? Would this mean that increased planting or increased density of planting would mean increased table wine production?
Could the clever port producer increase vineyard production and then use only the best vinifications for port wine production, with the rest of the juice being used for table wine?
Alex
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Andy Velebil
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Pardon my lack of knowledge, but what is "Beneficio." 
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Frederick Blais
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The Beneficio is the amount of Port that can be produced each year. Depending on the amount of Port left in the lodges, the weather and many other factors, the IDVP is imposing a volume of Port being produce.
I don't know how the ruling is applied on the individual basis, but the total Port production, wine muted with alcool in a given year can't exceed what the IDVP is ruling.
I don't know how the ruling is applied on the individual basis, but the total Port production, wine muted with alcool in a given year can't exceed what the IDVP is ruling.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
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Andy Velebil
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Ahh, thanks Fred.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Sorry for the late response but this incomplete THREAD was worth revisiting.
Every vineyard in the Douro is rated on a point scale basis, determined by viticultural and geological attributes as well as terroir issues. Points are given for each specific dynamic (for example, factors such as: altitude, productiveness, inclination of the land, aspect and exposure to sunlight, age of the vines etc). The Douro was the first region in the world where this type of rating system was put in place (1761) and it still exists today and is overseen by the IVDP. The points are then tallied and the vineyard is then rated A-F, A being the best. There are more A rated vineyards in the Cima Corgo, then the Douro Superior, which is still better than the Baixo Corgo (the 3 distinct Douro districts).
In addition to what Fred mentioned, the Beneficio is allocated with higher production quotas/ha going to the better rated vineyard sites.
Every vineyard in the Douro is rated on a point scale basis, determined by viticultural and geological attributes as well as terroir issues. Points are given for each specific dynamic (for example, factors such as: altitude, productiveness, inclination of the land, aspect and exposure to sunlight, age of the vines etc). The Douro was the first region in the world where this type of rating system was put in place (1761) and it still exists today and is overseen by the IVDP. The points are then tallied and the vineyard is then rated A-F, A being the best. There are more A rated vineyards in the Cima Corgo, then the Douro Superior, which is still better than the Baixo Corgo (the 3 distinct Douro districts).
In addition to what Fred mentioned, the Beneficio is allocated with higher production quotas/ha going to the better rated vineyard sites.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Not a great example as both David Guimaraens and Adrian Bridge have stated very clearly that they will not divert grapes and more clearly, have gone on the record saying they will NEVER make Douro reds.Is the producer will put their best grapes for Port into wine? I don't think so. Here's my points
1- Lets say Taylor is producing 15 000 cases of Port a year from grade A vineyards. Well if they don't sell them all, they can reduce that number to 10k and use the remaining for wines.
That said, I do understand your point Fred. OTOH, I disagree with your point #2. How do you achieve greatness without ever experimenting at first. You wouldn't use lesser grape quality to produce your first batch of bottles of Douro reds. That makes NO sense to me.
I also disagree that reducing VP and SQVP quantities is the answer Fred. These are the greatest profit centers for the Port trade. Moving forward in the future, it would be more likely IF ... there would be a decrease in ruby, tawny, Reserve and even possibly LBV areas of the special categories. Remember that we've discussed before the financial reasons that the upper end Ports remains where the future of the marketing/sales emphasis will be in the US/UK and other top Port markets.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Roy,
You have often posted that VP - even including Single Quinta wines - make up only a fraction of the sales of the port houses. On this basis, how are the sales of the non-VP port wines doing?
It is hard to generalize as this varies from country to country as each marketplace buys different items. Just one example: France is by far and away the largest importer of Port wine. But the French by the cheapest Ports they can get their hands on, usually ruby or Reserve that is used for aperitif drinking. Suffice it to say that the lower end Port products are quickly being re-evaluated by the Port producers in terms of the cost per bottle on the shelf vs. their profit margin and especially markets like the UK where buyers-own-brand proliferates.
Commercially, vintage port is seen by me (a sample of 1 consumer) as being the flagship, high quality wine, of each of the port houses. This is their equivalent of the prestige wine label - but its only produced every 3 years or so. Not even Y'qem is as selective as that.
Agreed. But far more like the releases of Tete de Cuvee Champagnes which are much more "quality-vintage-specific" ... Vintage Port's reputation impacts everything else the producer/shipper sells.
So what happens to the best quality grapes in the other years? At present, I suppose they go into single quinta wines and colheitas (and long may they both continue!) and into making up the blending stocks for reserve and ruby wines.
Yes that is the case, but many of the best grapes that don't go into VP/SQVPs make their way first into LBVs and Tawny Port with an indication of age. These are huge sellers and far more important to "reputations" than ruby/Reserve Ports.
In my mind, it is likely to be these blending stocks that suffer. I have no idea whether the Douro is suffering from overproduction in the way that we have recently been hearing from France, but if they are then a growth in table wines would be an excellent alternative to surplus stocks of blending ports.
At the end of the day, IMO, it will depend on what the producer is out to achieve. For instance, will Quinta do Crasto (just an example here) which is now building a great reputation for their table wines ... utilize mediocre quality grapes? No way! So as you mentioned in the paragraph directly above ... most likely they'd have to reduce stocks of their Ports (LBV?) or keep planting new vines/vineyards ... which they ARE doing.
So, my personal plea to the port makers as they consider production of table wines would be:
(1) Vintage Port is unique and has not yet been replicated anywhere else in the world. Have faith in consumers, keep the quality of these wines as high as they are and consumers will realise what these wines really represent.
Actually, there are other countries that produce vintage ports. The USA, So. Africa are just two examples of other nations that DO replicate vp. But that point aside, the issue is more about how to get new consumers to experiment with and experience Vintage Port and the other high end Ports.
(2) Make more vintage port in response to increased demand. Single quinta ports shipped in all but the worst of years is an excellent way to develop brand loyalty. Look at the impact that Vesuvio is having and the market awareness of Malvedos. Hopefully the margin on these wines is more than would be achieved on a table wine.
Demand for VP has decreased worldwide since 2001, so increasing production is not currently the correct scheme. SQVP is broader with the likes of giant Quinta do Noval and then many new growers turned shippers, such as Quinta do Portal, Quinta de Roriz and Quinta do Vale MEÃO. Again, it may not necessarily be a matter if the table wines provide greater margins, but IF the producer is looking to create an entirely NEW market for their label within their own border and worldwide. If they can create interesting and delicious world-class table wines and develop distribution networks in expanding markets, it may be worth the reduction of margins for the gains in prestige and expanded volumes of non-fortified bottlings.
You have often posted that VP - even including Single Quinta wines - make up only a fraction of the sales of the port houses. On this basis, how are the sales of the non-VP port wines doing?
It is hard to generalize as this varies from country to country as each marketplace buys different items. Just one example: France is by far and away the largest importer of Port wine. But the French by the cheapest Ports they can get their hands on, usually ruby or Reserve that is used for aperitif drinking. Suffice it to say that the lower end Port products are quickly being re-evaluated by the Port producers in terms of the cost per bottle on the shelf vs. their profit margin and especially markets like the UK where buyers-own-brand proliferates.
Commercially, vintage port is seen by me (a sample of 1 consumer) as being the flagship, high quality wine, of each of the port houses. This is their equivalent of the prestige wine label - but its only produced every 3 years or so. Not even Y'qem is as selective as that.
Agreed. But far more like the releases of Tete de Cuvee Champagnes which are much more "quality-vintage-specific" ... Vintage Port's reputation impacts everything else the producer/shipper sells.
So what happens to the best quality grapes in the other years? At present, I suppose they go into single quinta wines and colheitas (and long may they both continue!) and into making up the blending stocks for reserve and ruby wines.
Yes that is the case, but many of the best grapes that don't go into VP/SQVPs make their way first into LBVs and Tawny Port with an indication of age. These are huge sellers and far more important to "reputations" than ruby/Reserve Ports.
In my mind, it is likely to be these blending stocks that suffer. I have no idea whether the Douro is suffering from overproduction in the way that we have recently been hearing from France, but if they are then a growth in table wines would be an excellent alternative to surplus stocks of blending ports.
At the end of the day, IMO, it will depend on what the producer is out to achieve. For instance, will Quinta do Crasto (just an example here) which is now building a great reputation for their table wines ... utilize mediocre quality grapes? No way! So as you mentioned in the paragraph directly above ... most likely they'd have to reduce stocks of their Ports (LBV?) or keep planting new vines/vineyards ... which they ARE doing.
So, my personal plea to the port makers as they consider production of table wines would be:
(1) Vintage Port is unique and has not yet been replicated anywhere else in the world. Have faith in consumers, keep the quality of these wines as high as they are and consumers will realise what these wines really represent.
Actually, there are other countries that produce vintage ports. The USA, So. Africa are just two examples of other nations that DO replicate vp. But that point aside, the issue is more about how to get new consumers to experiment with and experience Vintage Port and the other high end Ports.
(2) Make more vintage port in response to increased demand. Single quinta ports shipped in all but the worst of years is an excellent way to develop brand loyalty. Look at the impact that Vesuvio is having and the market awareness of Malvedos. Hopefully the margin on these wines is more than would be achieved on a table wine.
Demand for VP has decreased worldwide since 2001, so increasing production is not currently the correct scheme. SQVP is broader with the likes of giant Quinta do Noval and then many new growers turned shippers, such as Quinta do Portal, Quinta de Roriz and Quinta do Vale MEÃO. Again, it may not necessarily be a matter if the table wines provide greater margins, but IF the producer is looking to create an entirely NEW market for their label within their own border and worldwide. If they can create interesting and delicious world-class table wines and develop distribution networks in expanding markets, it may be worth the reduction of margins for the gains in prestige and expanded volumes of non-fortified bottlings.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
As I understand, winemakers tend to look for different ripeness levels in grapes to be used for VP and those to be used for dry wine.
Steven,
Please do elaborate on the above. I think it would be very useful for folks to understand the specifics of what you mention.
Mr. Seely has his own Quinta/vineyard plantings underway.
As mentioned before, don't count on any of the Fladgate Partnership's houses to produce Douro table wines anytime soon. With new purchases (not yet disclosed) and their existing houses, they have plenty on their plate and folks who head up the family NOT in favor of anything but Port production.
Niepoort has shown an excellent propensity for creating top Douro reds AND Ports, but one example does not a cottage industry make. Nor does the one Douro red for which the Symington Family is now known for. Of course they may expand that lineup at some point.
Steven,
Please do elaborate on the above. I think it would be very useful for folks to understand the specifics of what you mention.
Mr. Seely has his own Quinta/vineyard plantings underway.
As mentioned before, don't count on any of the Fladgate Partnership's houses to produce Douro table wines anytime soon. With new purchases (not yet disclosed) and their existing houses, they have plenty on their plate and folks who head up the family NOT in favor of anything but Port production.
Niepoort has shown an excellent propensity for creating top Douro reds AND Ports, but one example does not a cottage industry make. Nor does the one Douro red for which the Symington Family is now known for. Of course they may expand that lineup at some point.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
José,- the good grapes that don`t have "beneficio";
- the small price that big companies pay for grapes without "beneficio";
You make two excellent points. Would you care to explain them in greater detail please?
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
Alex,
Most of your questions from your last post in this thread have now been answered. This one still looms:
If you were XYZ Port producer and have now decided to branch out and follow others by making some stellar Douro table wines ... why would you choose to use 2nd or 3rd pressings or lesser quality grapes?
Most of your questions from your last post in this thread have now been answered. This one still looms:
Sorry to answer a question with a rhetorical question, but it may help others to understand....Could the clever port producer increase vineyard production and then use only the best vinifications for port wine production, with the rest of the juice being used for table wine?
If you were XYZ Port producer and have now decided to branch out and follow others by making some stellar Douro table wines ... why would you choose to use 2nd or 3rd pressings or lesser quality grapes?
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Frederick Blais
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- Location: Porto, Portugal
There is a small article in last Decanter about the Douro. As Roy said in previous posting, they are selecting grapes suited to make great dry wine and other grapes suiting to make great VP.
Douro is not like Burgundy or Bordeaux, even though the terroir is exceptionnal and vines is growing there for centuries, they knew little of that gold mine beaneath their feet until they started studying it in the 60's and 70's. From there they have massively replanted many vineyards with the best grapes clone, slope orientation etc.
Samething goes for dry wines, they are experimenting it right now. Still in its early stages and they produce great wines, but they have a lot to do, especially with vineyards selection and from the harvest to the fermentation, it is not the same process as you use with Port.
Big bucks have been put to produce great wines at expensive prices, not that they have some attention from the press they must invest money to produce great QPR wines under 15$ just like Australia, Spain and Chile have done so well lately to draw every winelovers eyes towards them.
Douro is not like Burgundy or Bordeaux, even though the terroir is exceptionnal and vines is growing there for centuries, they knew little of that gold mine beaneath their feet until they started studying it in the 60's and 70's. From there they have massively replanted many vineyards with the best grapes clone, slope orientation etc.
Samething goes for dry wines, they are experimenting it right now. Still in its early stages and they produce great wines, but they have a lot to do, especially with vineyards selection and from the harvest to the fermentation, it is not the same process as you use with Port.
Big bucks have been put to produce great wines at expensive prices, not that they have some attention from the press they must invest money to produce great QPR wines under 15$ just like Australia, Spain and Chile have done so well lately to draw every winelovers eyes towards them.
Living the dream and now working for a Port company
Hi there,just a few thoughts about what I have just read.
we are a small producer called quinta da covada and are an A rated vinyard of 40 hectares(20 planted) with the average age of the vines at 25 plus years,with some up to 150.we border roeda,bonfim and roncao.It makes financial sence for us to use our better/more mature vines for the production of our pinalta red wine.2004 was our first commercial release from which we recived a commended award from decanter.as a small concern cash flow is of paramount importance so making red wine makes for a faster cash flow.Larger companys can absorb the costs involved .we have as yet no reutation for port as the grapes were sold to other shippers,hopefully should all go well we might make some in the future.The good thing is that the old lagars are being used again to make wine after over a hundered years and as the vinyard was established in 1806 its our 200th birthday this year.what better way to celebrate than by making wine on site in the original lagars?.if interested look at http://www.pinalta.com.thanks to Dirk Niepoort for his hospitality and comments regarding our wine if we dont talk together we dont improve ,but the best thing is we make new friends and exchange ideas.Hi also to Steven Kooij and his friend that we met a the Niepoort lodges in VNG ,again great conversation with great wines and food.should any one wish to try our wine please get in touch ,we are not afraid of feedback!!!!!.so I raise a glass to you all(pinalta of course) lets keep the juices flowing ,and to sum up it depends if the accountants our your heart rules your bank balance.
we are a small producer called quinta da covada and are an A rated vinyard of 40 hectares(20 planted) with the average age of the vines at 25 plus years,with some up to 150.we border roeda,bonfim and roncao.It makes financial sence for us to use our better/more mature vines for the production of our pinalta red wine.2004 was our first commercial release from which we recived a commended award from decanter.as a small concern cash flow is of paramount importance so making red wine makes for a faster cash flow.Larger companys can absorb the costs involved .we have as yet no reutation for port as the grapes were sold to other shippers,hopefully should all go well we might make some in the future.The good thing is that the old lagars are being used again to make wine after over a hundered years and as the vinyard was established in 1806 its our 200th birthday this year.what better way to celebrate than by making wine on site in the original lagars?.if interested look at http://www.pinalta.com.thanks to Dirk Niepoort for his hospitality and comments regarding our wine if we dont talk together we dont improve ,but the best thing is we make new friends and exchange ideas.Hi also to Steven Kooij and his friend that we met a the Niepoort lodges in VNG ,again great conversation with great wines and food.should any one wish to try our wine please get in touch ,we are not afraid of feedback!!!!!.so I raise a glass to you all(pinalta of course) lets keep the juices flowing ,and to sum up it depends if the accountants our your heart rules your bank balance.
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Steven Kooij
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:10 am
- Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Andrew,
Why don't you start your own thread here in the Douro Wine Forum and formally introduce yourself and PINALTA to the readers. Many of them will not check back here to see what you wrote above. I have no issue with you discussing your wine(s), vineyards and/or history of the Quinta and family that started this. I welcome you here and thank you for your fine posts so far.
Why don't you start your own thread here in the Douro Wine Forum and formally introduce yourself and PINALTA to the readers. Many of them will not check back here to see what you wrote above. I have no issue with you discussing your wine(s), vineyards and/or history of the Quinta and family that started this. I welcome you here and thank you for your fine posts so far.
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com