Brown Derby Pre-Holiday Sale

[Roy Hersh]

This is one of the most reputable wine retailers in the USA, Brown Derby has been around since 1937. Today I looked at their current Port page and they have a great listing of Ports there. There are only two problems:

a. "Fill levels will vary - for example a 1970 Vintage is 35+ years old thus a mid-shoulder level is considered acceptable."
Actually Brown Derby, for a 1970 I would not buy any VP that was not at least base neck level and even top shoulder would be questionable provenance, imho. In fact, I don't think I'd even risk a mid-shoulder fill level on any Port unless it was 75+ years old ... not 35 ... and even then I'd be concerned.

b. Pricing: there has to be about 125 Ports listed for sale on that one page. However, I can not find one single instance of what I'd consider a reasonable price or something that I would venture to purchase. I am going to show a few random examples without picking the worst case scenarios ...

Graham's Six Grapes $20.99 .... what?
Dow's 1977 VP $299.99 (you can find 1963 for less!)
Quinta do Vesuvio 2003 - $69.99
Warre's 1977 VP - $199.99

Enough said?

This is not to pick on Brown Derby ... as I know lots of people who love to buy from them, but the tolerance for fill levels and my lack of tolerance for exorbitant pricing ... well, let's just say I'll be shopping elsewhere.

And to be fair, they do have 1999 Niepoort LBV for $21.99 which might be the best price besides the 1912 Niepoort Colheita ... which is only $699.99

[David Spriggs]

This is what Zachy's and most other aution houses haveas their standard for condition:

BN Bottom Neck: perfectly good for any age of wine.
Outstandingly good for a wine of 10 years in bottle, or longer.

TS Top Shoulder: normal for any claret 15 years old or older.

US Upper-Shoulder: slight natural reduction through easing of
cork and evaporation through cork and capsule. Usually no problem.
Acceptable for any wine over 20 years old. Exceptional for pre-1940
wines.

MS Mid-Shoulder: probably some weakening of the cork and
some risk. Not abnormal for wines 30/40 years of age. Estimates
usually take this into account.

LS Low-Shoulder: risky and usually only accepted for sale if
wine or label is exceptionally rare or interesting. Always offered
without reserve and with low estimate.

Upper shoulder is acceptable for any 20 year old wine??!! Not by me. I agree that a 1970 Port should be at the base of the neck.... hopefully better.

-Dave-

[Andy Velebil]

Which is why I don't buy from Brown Derby...their pricing is crazy high.

[Roy Hersh]

David,

Do you feel these "caveats" or auction house qualifiers are aimed at all wines? It sounds like it. Personally, when I consider German Rieslings and think of those puny short corks, it amazes me to find them alive without significant leaking when i taste ones from the 1959-1971 or 1976 range. Although for some reason, as a group I find more TCA in them than most other wines. Freaky!

Anyway, Bdx corks tend to be long and CA Cabs too, like VP, but not typically Burgundy corks which are average size. So, does this have a bearing on how auction houses view the ullage and especially when coming up with suggested levels that are acceptable in creating their policies. Or are they giving themselves some extra leeway to have something in writing to keep folks from trying to return bottles that would otherwise not be acceptable to most consumers?

Again the question remains ... is this for all wines (yes I know the policy is) ... but should it be categorically different for fortifieds?

[David Spriggs]

I think the caveats are aimed at all wines. Burgundy bottes (or any bottle with a sloping shoulder) has a differet standard - it's measured by the number of centimeters below the cork. However, I believe it's essentially identical.

I believe that the auction houses are trying to keep the pool of saleable wines large. Personally, I don't care what they consider acceptable. I just want them to mention all levels that aren't in the neck. My pet-peeve is that they sometimes say - "opaque bottle" for Ports and don't mention the level. I think that (being professionals), they should get the brightest light they can to see through these bottles. I don't think that just saying opaque bottle suffices.

-Dave-

[Andy Velebil]

I believe that the auction houses are trying to keep the pool of saleable wines large. Personally, I don't care what they consider acceptable. I just want them to mention all levels that aren't in the neck. My pet-peeve is that they sometimes say - "opaque bottle" for Ports and don't mention the level. I think that (being professionals), they should get the brightest light they can to see through these bottles. I don't think that just saying opaque bottle suffices.

-Dave-

Dave,

I agree. With all the super bright flashlights there are these days there is no reason they can't check the fill level's on those darker bottles.

But still, my favorite line that I hear from a number of auction houses is "Well Port is more durable than normal wine, so it should be fine." That usually causes me to launch into a long winded lecture about Port...... :devil:

[David Spriggs]

But still, my favorite line that I hear from a number of auction houses is "Well Port is more durable than normal wine, so it should be fine."

I have to agree with that. Some auction houses seem to think that signs of seepage and mid-shoulder fills are just fine for port. They *may* be fine, but it shouldn't be considered normal.

To get back to the Brown Derby... they have an extensive list of Ports, especially older ones. For many items, they are the only shop in the US that have that item in stock. Do you need a 1912 Niepoort Colheita for a tasting? They have it.

Of course their high prices keep it in stock.
-Dave-

[Andy Velebil]

they have an extensive list of Ports, especially older ones. For many items, they are the only shop in the US that have that item in stock. Do you need a 1912 Niepoort Colheita for a tasting? They have it.

Of course their high prices keep it in stock.

Yeah, 2020 wines is the same. Crazy high prices, but they generally have stuff in stock if you need it and are willing to pay.

[SEAN C.]

Graham's Six Grapes $20.99 .... what?
Dow's 1977 VP $299.99 (you can find 1963 for less!)
Quinta do Vesuvio 2003 - $69.99
Warre's 1977 VP - $199.99

GREAT PRICES!
Dow Vintage 1977 for $299!!!
WOW
I just saw Graham Six Grapes at Costco yesterday for about $15.95.

You gotta love people holding onto a dream in the middle of a recession!
I did however get a 1945 Croft mis-labeled as "1947" for $400 from those morons.