For The Love Of Port

Moses Botbol wrote:Infantado ports are quite dry and suited well for food.

How can port be dry? I don't disagree with you as I've had some port myself that seemed dry, but with a residual sugar level of 100g+ for every liter, that's hardly possible. Or have I misunderstood something here? :help:

Good question. Maybe the acid makes it seem drier? Maybe "dry" is relative to other port, rather than dry compared to dry wines?

Could be one explanation. Sweet white wine feels less sweet if it has more acidity. Other thing could be that massive tannins may trick us to feel that the wine is more dry?

I've had some white Ports that are very dry... so much so that they approximate white wines. In some cases even a "lagrima" white still tastes as dry as a riesling white wine to me.

Rol Roi makes a "Meio Seco" Reserva that has less residual sugar in it, and thus is semi-dry. Really there's no reason that the sugar content couldn't be controlled to make a dry red Port. Worst case you could just start with lower brix grapes, but I imagine you could also just let the fermentation continue longer and then adjust the alcohol content appropriately during the addition of the aguardente.

Glenn E. wrote:but I imagine you could also just let the fermentation continue longer and then adjust the alcohol content appropriately during the addition of the aguardente.

Agree, but wouldn't that make it non-port? Isn't there a rule that says something about when (at approx. 6% alcohol IIRC) the fermentation should be stopped, or am I just making something up? . I've searched the net for information about this and it seems that the fermentation process can be stopped later on, i.e. at about 10% instead of 6% which yields a huge difference in residual sugar level. So if that's true, then it is possible to make a port that is close to dry, especially if there's a lot of acid and tannins in it which would make it appear even more dry.

You are both correct. The difference between a sweet style of Port such as Graham's and a dry one such as Dow (using examples most can relate to) the difference is usually not too big.

Of course it boils down to how long the wine is allowed to ferment. The longer, the drier. When you look closely at the winemaker's analysis sheets that accompany samples, or even on their websites' TNs etc. ... you will notice that Residual Sugar (RS) is measured in grams/liter. This is the universally accepted protocol in wines. There is Baume/Brix too ... but in reality the grams per liter of RS is what can best help you ascertain the level of sweetness in a Port. Believe it or not, there is sometimes less than a half of one percentage point difference between a vintage of Dow vs. Graham's in the identical year. It is fun to look at this AFTER doing your own blind analysis.

On a separate note:

Glenn, living close by ... will have its perks. When I start to receive all of the 2007 VP cask samples for my annual VP Forecast, i will invite you to one of the sessions so you can see how scientifically and blind ... this process is approached. I think you will learn a ton, too. I typically taste 6 at a time, which is normally a 2 hour gig, 3x/day for 2-3 days to watch the evolution of these youngsters which provides great insight into their future.

Morten, thanks for a brilliant thread. Very interesting to say the least!

Roy Hersh wrote:You are both correct. The difference between a sweet style of Port such as Graham's and a dry one such as Dow (using examples most can relate to) the difference is usually not too big.

Believe it or not, there is sometimes less than a half of one percentage point difference between a vintage of Dow vs. Graham's in the identical year. It is fun to look at this AFTER doing your own blind analysis.

What other factors would lead someone to say one is sweeter than the other if RS difference is too small to be a factor? Cocentration? Acidity? Tannin (or lack of)?

I´ve to say that the dryest Port that I ever tasted was the Quinta das Baldias Extra Dry with 7-8 years ageing, but the best one and the oldest dry that I tasted, definitely the Messias Old Dry with 15 years Old.

Moses,

The difference between a Graham's (sweet) and Dow's (dry) Vintage Port in the same vintage is typically less than 1 gram per liter of residual sugar, yet the Dow's provides a drier impression and I think some of that has to do with label bias. Blind is the real test.

I find much drier White Port than red and rarely, if ever would classify Ruby or Tawny Port styles as dry ... only in comparison to one another, not overall. If one says a "dry style" of Port ... I believe they are speaking in relative terms for the category. Clearly not "dry" as in a table wine.

Moses Botbol wrote:What other factors would lead someone to say one is sweeter than the other if RS difference is too small to be a factor? Cocentration? Acidity? Tannin (or lack of)?

My own imperfect palate is easily tricked by concentrated but soft tannins. Big, bold, in-your-face tannins are obvious to me as tannins, but some Ports that have strong tannins have a softer feel to them and those often seem like dry Ports to me.

Acidity can also fool me, especially in combination with softer fruits. Again, the big, bold, in-your-face fruits are always obvious, but a somewhat softer style with strong but not overbearing acidity often seems dry to me.

Sometimes even just prominent alcohol can make a Port seem dry. Not if it's fully into the medicinal realm, but a hot Port often seems dry to me too.