For The Love Of Port

There is lots of controversy about this, so what do you believe was the very first vintage/producer of LBV Port?

I've always read that it was Taylor Fladgate in the late 1960s, but I'm sure you have something else in mind.

1927 Ramos Pinto.

I've seen a bottle of this for sale once. Didn't feel like paying 1500 euro for it though.

Ronald Wortel wrote:1927 Ramos Pinto.

I've seen a bottle of this for sale once. Didn't feel like paying 1500 euro for it though.

Holy cow thats one expensive LBV

Ronald Wortel wrote:1927 Ramos Pinto.

Thats also what I have found. Meaning that its the first one that the institute of port have registered. However, they are not ruling out that LBV was produced before, and Oldenburg says that some of the older Vintages(from the 1770-1890ies) was produced in very much the same way as LBV these days, and could qualify as such.

Several houses claim to have been the first to do LBV though, including the Van Zellers and Taylors.

I have a half bottle of 1961 Quinta de Val Coelho LBV. I think this Quinta was once or is now owned by Cockburn.

Question: When did the rule of bottling VP by the third winter after harvest come into being? All "LBV" before that date would have to be questioned as it would simply be VP that was bottled late rather than true LBV.

I read that Taylor's gets credit for the term "Late Bottled Vintage", but not necessarily that they were the first to produce a port that would be considered an LBV. I don't recall off the top of my head where I read that, but I don't think it was Taylor's propaganda.

I would also say Taylor. Moreover, reinforced by a comment of Adrian Bridge, when replying in infoportwine.com about the launching of Pink Port in June: "We only need to recall the initial reaction to Late Bottled Vintage, when Taylor's launched it, which many people said would destroy Vintage Port given Taylor's reputation, whereas in reality it helped to revitalise it and broaden its appeal."

But as Brian has said, Roy may have something else in mind...

Same story... Taylors in the `60 - and have also heard about Ramos Pinto in the `20 - Ill check my pics. from Qta. de Everamoira museum. Maybe I can spot something.

Sorry I have not been back here sooner. Ronald is correct from what I have unearthed:

Ramos Pinto "Bom Retiro" LBV from 1927 btld 1931

The whole subject is horribly vague - the ancient Ferreira vintage ports from the early 19th century were, I am told, left in wood for decades before bottling, and significant amounts of stock shipped for bottling overseas would not have been bottled immediately upon arrival.

Graham bottled their 1942 VP in "the victory year of 1945" - as the label proudly proclaims - three years after vintage.

Is the four year gap between vintage in 1927 and bottling in 1931 really that exceptional for the Ramos Pinto??

With the 1929 Wall St Crash hot on the heels of the '27 declaration, I suspect that quite a lot of wine from that bountiful vintage was left lanquishing in wood until the early '30's - before anyone got round to bottling it..

Tom

The whole subject is horribly vague - the ancient Ferreira vintage ports from the early 19th century were, I am told, left in wood for decades before bottling, and significant amounts of stock shipped for bottling overseas would not have been bottled immediately upon arrival.

I've studied documentation that this was the case from about 1820-1870 when vintage as we know it today really took form. Prior to that it was not just Ferreira that had "vintage dated Ports" that were considered VPs and bottled as such ... actually achieve what we call Colheita today. There is an important paper that was written on this topic back in 2001. This was endemic in the Port trade for at least those 50 formative years.

Graham bottled their 1942 VP in "the victory year of 1945" - as the label proudly proclaims - three years after vintage.

The iVP which existed from 1933 to 2003, allowed for bottling to take place between eighteen months after harvest and through three years. So, there was nothing "officially" wrong with this. In 2003, the IVDP came into being which obviously now encompasses Douro DOC wines as well. In 2005, the regulations for bottling of Vintage Port were tightened up a little and I was the first (thank you Mario for assistance with the translation) to put publish the new regulations in the English language.

Is the four year gap between vintage in 1927 and bottling in 1931 really that exceptional for the Ramos Pinto??

No not for a wine labeled LBV, but it was the first that I am aware of.

With the 1929 Wall St Crash hot on the heels of the '27 declaration, I suspect that quite a lot of wine from that bountiful vintage was left lanquishing in wood until the early '30's - before anyone got round to bottling it..

Your speculation is not accurate based on reports I have read and research I've undertaken. The wine was bottled and the bottles sat in warehouses after 1930. Even reports of the German Luftwaffe bombing some of these warehouses were filled with stories about these bottles.

So although two and a third centuries ago Vintage Port was quite a different beast in many cases, by the 2nd decades of the 20th century that was not the case. Therefore until proven differently, the 1927 Ramos-Pinto stands as the oldest recorded bottling of LBV I've ever seen proven.

Your speculation is not accurate based on reports I have read and research I've undertaken. The wine was bottled and the bottles sat in warehouses after 1930. Even reports of the German Luftwaffe bombing some of these warehouses were filled with stories about these bottles.

If you read accounts of the wine trade in the inter-war years, the leisurely and gentlemanly fashion in which it was conducted -

- when representatives of the shippers were instructed to meet clients and present their card, talk about everything under the sun, but under no circumstances discuss the product - as that would be far too 'common'..

- when the London agents of the principal shippers to the UK had very little interest in bottling (Sandeman excepted) and consigned pipes all over the country to be bottled by provincial merchants.

And then consider the booming economy of the 1920's and the timeline of 1929, with a glorious declaration in the spring, plentiful stock to ship, and a hungry market back home - that summer the ships must have been stacked high with pipes..

..and then, with great speed, it all went very wrong, much as it has today.

In the cold grey light of January 1930, the merchants would have been counting their meagre takings from the Christmas season, chasing accounts that no-one wanted to pay; while in the stockroom, bottles for 'laying down' lay unsold - the intended customers nursing their losses from their investments.

And what of that spare pipe of Cockburn they had ordered, in the heady days of summer, when the rep called to talk about the cricket?

Some would have ordered seventy dozen port bottles, to keep the staff busy - but I bet many left it for a rainy day..

Tom