Why don't more restaurants feature Port on their wine lists?

[Roy Hersh]

Besides the fact that some Ports like vintage don't benefit from sitting on shelves ... there has to be a better reason. :wall:

[Brian C.]

How would a restaurant go about decanting a vintage bottle before serving it? And how many people at these places are knowledgeable at all about port? I was at a bar in a very nice restaurant awhile back and I ordered a glass of 1983 Dow, thinking that this place would have some clue as to how to handle it (and I didn't know any better at the time, either, unfortunately). Anyway, they gave me what turned out to be the last pour in the bottle. All the sediment was in that pour. Nasty. They gave me a glass of Taylor 30 instead. So I learned to order tawny if I am at a restaurant. The only thing that can screw that up is if it's been there way too long.

I gather that it would be hard to sell a whole bottle at a restaurant, also. I have seen old vintage bottles offered on the menu before, but not very often. Is it possible they might do better if they sold half bottles?

[Eric Ifune]

The best restaurant Port experince I've ever had was at Valentino in Los Angeles around ten years ago. One of the top Italian restaurants in the nation and one of the best wine programs. It was a celebratory dinner with my family. After much food and wine, my brother and I ordered a glass each of 1963 Grahams. It was from a bottle opened a couple of days before but not decanted and filtered through cheese cloth into the glasses. Still fresh and lovely. They comped us the Port since we spent so much for the rest of the wines, and I think the sommalier recognized we were wine geeks.

Given that experience, I don't think the average restaurant has the wine knowledge or expertise on the floor at all times to allow such service. This would lead to disappontment by the customer. Usually only the wine knowledgeable would order Port after a meal.

[Eric Menchen]

I don't have a good answer, but this question provokes sharing a few observations:

Ironically, I think I recall seeing port featured at a high end beer bar. The list was not extensive, but I think they had more than six different ports and there was some variety. I presume they were served appropriately, but I didn't test them. I guess that people that are willing to pay $9 for a beer are a better target audience for ports.

A local restaurant that my wife and I like here in Longmont, CO actually has a few ports; nothing to excite an FTLOP member, but more than most. We go there regularly. Another restaurant actually increased my interest in ports years ago, as they featured a flight of desert wines.

I'll probably be going to one of Boulder's finest restaurants again soon. They have a cellar of more than 20,000 bottles. I was planning on calling them up beforehand to inquire about their port selection, and possibly pick one to have after dinner. We'll see if they know port as well as their other wines. I'll report back.

-Eric

[Moses Botbol]

Outside of the steak house kind of place, port is an afterthought and/or dessert wine.

In Montreal, at Queue de Cheval, they have a port cart with 20+ ports and Madeira, that is presented really well after dinner. It was even better when you could smoke at the dinner table.

I think there could be business in for a restaurant if they really presented the port well with tongs, decanting and the like. Like when the waiter walks by every table with 6 lb lobster to show it off before it gets to the table. Customers will see the drama of the tongs, and pouring and think "we should get a bottle too". Certainly LBV's like Warre could make an affordable pick at the table which most are going to enjoy no matter how vintages you have had previously.

The restaurant I went to last night, the manager says he gives away more RWC Barbeito than he sells. Everyone he gives a glass to loves it, but hasn't turned into sales. At $9 a glass, it's best deal he has on the dessert wine list.

[Roy Hersh]

Moses,

What is RWC Barbeito? I realize what the initials mean and it must be some sort of Madeira ... but could you please let us know which?

In the last newsletter I am sure you saw the notice about our brother up in Alaska, opening the first wine bar EVER in the entire state. He has a great program for Port and Madeira. Even better if a member should ever be in his area.

I agree with much of what has been said. However, I have worked in places where the training of the staff was better than adequate and flights of "100 years of Port" with a 10/20/30/40 year were served for $25 with very solid pours. Nowadays, training is not as emphasized in the majority of places but there are some gems around the USA and in the UK too.

I bet that in some parts of the EU there are probably some great little pubs and the like with excellent Port on the shelves. I'd love to hear from some of our European friends.

[Moses Botbol]

Moses,

What is RWC Barbeito? I realize what the initials mean and it must be some sort of Madeira ... but could you please let us know which?

The Historic Series RWC, Boston Bual

[Carlos Rodriguez]

Around here (Valencia), the best wine restaurant is Enopata. They do have VP in their wine list. Quinta do Crasto and Vale Maria, the last vintages only. But at least they do have VP.

[Glenn E.]

I had dinner at Perilla in NYC tonight (owned by the Harold Dieterle, the winner of the first seasonn of Top Chef). Their list was short, but was decent. They even have a sommelier on staff which seemed rather extravagant to me for such a small (seating for roughly 60) restaurant, but the Ports seemed well chosen to me. I had a glass of 2004 Niepoort LBV with dinner and then for the fun of it a glass of Fiklin 10-yr old tawny port (California) for dessert. They also had a 2000 Churchill Quinta da Gricha and a couple others which I can no longer remember. The two I had both seemed fresh, though a tad warm for my taste.

I highly recommend Perilla - the food was excellent. I commented during the meal that this restaurant demonstrates the difference between a business and a passion. Dieterle clearly loves what he does and it shows not only in the food but also in the attitudes and attentiveness of the staff. The price is even reasonable - we ate for $80 per head which included appetizers, dinner, drinks, and desserts.

The address is 9 Jones St in downtown Manhattan for those in the area.

[Al B.]

I guess it's as simple as supply and demand. Most restaurants aren't selling enough of it to make it worth their while stocking it. There are exception, and when we find one we should do our best to publicise them and use them.

I think I've mentioned elsewhere that the Smith & Wollensky in New York around 4th and 53rd has a very decent Port list. I've eaten there are few times in my previous job when I used to travel and they got used to me phoning them in the morning and ordering a bottle of port to be decanted at lunchtime and ready to be drunk with the steaks in the evening. Their prices were pretty respectable too - Offley '85 for not much more than retail.

[Moses Botbol]

I think I've mentioned elsewhere that the Smith & Wollensky in New York around 4th and 53rd has a very decent Port list. I've eaten there are few times in my previous job when I used to travel and they got used to me phoning them in the morning and ordering a bottle of port to be decanted at lunchtime and ready to be drunk with the steaks in the evening. Their prices were pretty respectable too - Offley '85 for not much more than retail.

Good move.

[goncalo devesas]

Nice way to promote Vintage Port, I´ve talked with some people in the business and they found in the 1/2 bottle of Vintage a nice solution ( in this size, I must say to people that the aging in bottle is not the same as 75cl ) but even like this it´s a nice solution of promoting this category of Port and Port in general.
Starting to open an 1/2 bottle and suggest customers to drink it with a strong flavoured cheese or with a "foie gras" before starting a meal, the risk is not so big as using a 75cl bottle, and pass to the next step, creating in people the curiosity of tasting a nice Tawny as a single digestive glass or with a dessert like a pudin...

[Moses Botbol]

Nice way to promote Vintage Port, I´ve talked with some people in the business and they found in the 1/2 bottle of Vintage a nice solution ( in this size, I must say to people that the aging in bottle is not the same as 75cl ) but even like this it´s a nice solution of promoting this category of Port and Port in general.
Starting to open an 1/2 bottle and suggest customers to drink it with a strong flavoured cheese or with a "foie gras" before starting a meal, the risk is not so big as using a 75cl bottle, and pass to the next step, creating in people the curiosity of tasting a nice Tawny as a single digestive glass or with a dessert like a pudin...

Older Colheitas would perfect for the 1/2 bottle format. They can be bottled on demand, so it's easier for someone to drink aged port at a restaurant.