French Vins Doux Naturel and Spanish Vinos Dulces

[pgwerner]

I've been wanting to learn more about French Vins Doux Naturel and similar Spanish wines. I've had a few very young Grenache-based Banyuls, Maury, and Rasteau wines, and a Mourvedre-based Monastrell Dulce. All of these were done in a young, concentrated, low-tannin, fruit-forward style that I enjoyed very much. (As an aside, I think its a fortified style California could pull off well if they didn't concentrate their efforts into faking their way through "Port".) Very different from a Ruby/Vintage Port style, but quite enjoyable in its own way. Of these, I most enjoyed the Clos du Pauliles "Rimage" Banyuls and the Bodegas Olivares Monastrell Dulce.

I also had a small pour of a 1948 Banyuls (I forgot the name of the winemaker, unfortunately). This was also quite nice, with added complexity from age, but strong on fruit nevertheless. It was notably lighter on tannin than the few aged Vintage Ports I've had, however, and hence, lacking in the flavor of well-aged tannin that you'd get from a Vintage Port.

I know French fortifieds come in a variety of different appellations and styles. They seem to be mainly divided into Grenache-based wines (Banyuls, Maury, Rasteau, and Rivesaltes - and perhaps others?), and various Muscat-based wines (such as Muscat de Frontignon) which I've never tried at all.

Except for the 1948 Banyuls, all of my experience with these wines has been with Grenache-based fortifieds in an extremely young "Rimage" style. I know there are "Grand Cru" and "Rancio" styles which are more aged, but I know next to nothing about the different grades and aging of Vins Doux Naturel - can anybody explain more about this?

Are Muscat-based Vins Doux Naturel ever aged beyond a young style? (I have the same question about Spanish Grenache- and Mourvedre-based Vinos Dulces.)

Also, from my experience with the young "Rimage" styles of Banyuls, Maury, and Rasteau, they have a very similar style. As one gets into older wines, are wines from these appellations more distinctive from one another?

Finally, if you have personal recommendations of French and Spanish fortifieds that you really like, I'd love to know more.

Thanks in advance,
Peter

[Frederick Blais]

Hi Peter, regarding Muscat based Vin Doux, yes some do age very well. I had a few times already a 1974 Muscat de Rivesaltes that was drinking beautifully. I don't remember the name though...

Not Fortified but very sweet, my recommendations for French sweet wines would go with the Loire region wine made with Chenin Blanc. Especially the appellation of Bonnezeau and Quart de Chaume that can be considered the Grand Cru of Côteau du Layon. Some producers like Philippe Deslevaux are making extraordinary wines even outside these appelations!

[pgwerner]

Hi Peter, regarding Muscat based Vin Doux, yes some do age very well. I had a few times already a 1974 Muscat de Rivesaltes that was drinking beautifully.

Sounds good. I guess what I'm really wondering, though, is whether the Muscat-based Vins Doux Naturel ever are barrel-aged like some of the Banyuls and Rasteau Grand Cru's are. I'm not clear whether the above-mentioned '74 Muscat de Rivesaltes is an old bottle or a recent bottling of an old wine. I'm a fan of Muscats and Malvasias with a lot of oxidation and at least a little aging (such as 10+ year old Malmsey or 20-year-old Moscatel de Setubal), so I'm always on the lookout for other regions that might produce wines in that style. (I know Rutherglen in Australia does, but you pay premium for anything that's been aged more than 5 years.)

Thanks for the tips,
Peter

[Roy Hersh]

I am not going to close down this thread but would like to mention that we've discussed in the past ... keeping this website's focus to Port, Madeira and Douro wines. In other words, the dessert wines of the two regions and the table wines too.

The question was raised about getting into other wines and we agreed that it was best to keep this a niche website trying to keep specialized in the aforementioned areas. I am a bit more open minded to your post ONLY because it is discussing the dessert wines. But for future reference please do keep it in mind that the non-Portuguese wines of any type are best discussed on the plethora of other websites.

I hope this is not taken offensively or personally, I just don't want to set a precedent.

Thank you for understanding.

[pgwerner]

Sorry - I figured that it would be appropriate under "Other Discussions". I also figured that folks here would know more about French and Spanish sweet fortifieds than a typical cross-section of a general wine site.

Peter

[Roy Hersh]

No harm, no foul and you are new and did not know. I respect your reasons for posting and like I said, I let it slide in this case.