Hi,
I am so glad to have found your site... and that you have a category for "no dumb questions."
My wedding anniversary is next week and I would like to buy my husband a bottle of 20-year tawny port as a gift. However, except for the holiday glass of Bailey's, I don't drink. So, I'm pretty overwhelmed when I am confronted by the many bottles and recommendation cards on the shelves of our local discount liquor store.
Here are my questions. I would be truly grateful for recommendations and insights:
1. Since only one person will be drinking this bottle of port, is it possible to buy a type that can be opened and enjoyed over time? And if so, how long would the opened bottle be of drinkable quality and should it be refrigerated?
2. Is it possible to buy a good 20-year port in the $25.00 - $30.00 range, or would I be better off buying a 10-year?
3. In the past year we have bought two bottles of what we thought were tawny port, one called DelaForce Porto His Eminence's Choice 10-year and the other labeled R.L. Buller and Sons Victoria Tawny. His Eminence's was a big hit, the Buller, not so much... other than now knowing that real Port only comes from Portugal and has the word "port" or "porto" on the label (boy, do I feel silly thinking that if it said "tawny" and was on the shelf labeled "port and recommended by the clerk...), is there a way to figure out what other brands of genuine port he might enjoy based on knowing he liked His Eminence's?
Many thanks for your advice and suggestions!
LIli
Guidance for a Gift
Moderators: Glenn E., Roy Hersh, Andy Velebil
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Lili Robertson
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Eric Menchen
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Re: Guidance for a Gift
Your questions go from easier to more difficult, and of course any answers are just opinions, but here are mine:
1. Yes, a tawny port can be kept in the fridge and enjoyed over time. You can even leave it out at room temperature, but the fridge will lengthen the life. I've heard that a tawny will last a month refrigerated, but I've not made it that far to test this theory
I have two different tawnies in my fridge right now. I just pour a glass ahead of time so it can warm up a little bit.
2. $25 to $30 is pushing it, but I just did a search (http://www.wine-searcher.com) and found Warre's Otima 20 running around $35, so you're not too far off. This is a 500ml bottle, but maybe that's just fine. It looks like you can get a Graham's half bottle (375ml) in your price range, and a full bottle of Churchill. I've had the Otima and enjoyed it. I haven't had Graham's or Churchill 20, but can say that in general these are good names. As for 10 vs. 20, that's a big debate around here. Some people prefer the younger versions, but most prefer the old, if money is not a factor. But money is a factor, and a lot of people will say that the young versions give you more value for your dollar. I think you really have to figure out one's personal taste to answer this.
3. I really don't have a great answer here. I've never had the Delaforce tawny. I'm not familiar with Buller, but am guessing it is Australian. Hopefully someone else will offer a recommendation based on His Eminence's. Also, you might want to search around here as a at least one thread talks about tawnies of different age and a few identify favorites and bargains.
Most importantly, welcome to the forum, and good luck!
1. Yes, a tawny port can be kept in the fridge and enjoyed over time. You can even leave it out at room temperature, but the fridge will lengthen the life. I've heard that a tawny will last a month refrigerated, but I've not made it that far to test this theory
I have two different tawnies in my fridge right now. I just pour a glass ahead of time so it can warm up a little bit.2. $25 to $30 is pushing it, but I just did a search (http://www.wine-searcher.com) and found Warre's Otima 20 running around $35, so you're not too far off. This is a 500ml bottle, but maybe that's just fine. It looks like you can get a Graham's half bottle (375ml) in your price range, and a full bottle of Churchill. I've had the Otima and enjoyed it. I haven't had Graham's or Churchill 20, but can say that in general these are good names. As for 10 vs. 20, that's a big debate around here. Some people prefer the younger versions, but most prefer the old, if money is not a factor. But money is a factor, and a lot of people will say that the young versions give you more value for your dollar. I think you really have to figure out one's personal taste to answer this.
3. I really don't have a great answer here. I've never had the Delaforce tawny. I'm not familiar with Buller, but am guessing it is Australian. Hopefully someone else will offer a recommendation based on His Eminence's. Also, you might want to search around here as a at least one thread talks about tawnies of different age and a few identify favorites and bargains.
Most importantly, welcome to the forum, and good luck!
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Glenn E.
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Re: Guidance for a Gift
Hi Lili, welcome to 
!
Your questions are perfectly reasonable, especially for someone who doesn't drink! Congratulations on your anniversary, and I hope you're able to find a bottle that your husband loves.
As far as your questions go:
1. I'm the only person in my house who drinks Port, and my typical bottle is 20-yr old tawny. So I can assure you with great confidence that a bottle will easily last long enough for one person to enjoy it. I personally find that a 20-yr old is best during the first 2-3 days after which it goes into a bit of a funk for a few days, but some time around 7-10 days after being opened it rebounds back to a very nice and drinkable plateau. It depends on the bottle, but a 20-yr old tawny can maintain that plateau for as much as a month, especially if you store it in the refrigerator.
2. 20-yr old tawnies are normally a little more than $25 - $30, but sometimes you can get lucky. In my experience, most 20-yr olds run in the $40 to $55 range. As with most alcohol, price doesn't always equate to quality - some of the better 20-yr olds (at least in my opinion) can be found for $40 - $45. A 10-yr old is a very different Port than a 20-yr old, so the choice between them should probably be made based on what you're looking for and not just on price. (But yes, a 10-yr old will normally run between $20 and $35 so they're right in your price window.) 10-yr olds often still show a lot of fruity characteristics similar to ruby ports, sometimes still exhibit tannins, and to me feel a little bit unfinished. The best way to describe it is that they're not truly a mature tawny yet, but they're also clearly not a ruby any more. 20-yr olds seem to be the peak of the price/quality ratio for most people, and exhibit all of the classic tawny notes: dried fruits like apricots, a variety of nuts, and sometimes mellow flavors like honey and vanilla.
3. On the plus side, now you know the difference between a real Port and an Australian port-style dessert wine. (Port fanatics tend to use the 'P' and 'p' to denote real Port that comes from Portugal, and those "other drinks" that come from elsewhere but use the word port on their labels.) However, by far the easiest way to know for sure that you're getting Port is to look for the little white paper Selo de Guarantia that goes over the top of the bottle underneath the foil capsule. It typically hangs down on the front and back of the bottle an inch or two and has a serial code on it. Real Port must be approved by the Instituto do Vinho do Porto, and once approved it is given its Selo de Guarantia. Without that paper tag you're not getting real Port. (Really old bottles that have lost their Selos are an exception, of course, but generally come with some sort of paper trail to ensure that they're legitimate.)
As far as what your husband would like... one bottle is tough to use for comparison. Like Eric, I've never had the Delaforce 10- or 20-yr old tawnies, but I have had many others. Typically, the three most often recommended 20-yr olds are the Ramos Pinto (my personal favorite), the Ferreira Duque de Braganca (the favorite of several others here), and the Sandeman. The Sandeman is pretty bright and acidic. The Ramos Pinto is elegant but powerful. The Ferreira fits in between the two (probably why so many people like it) and is probably the best of both worlds. The Port that got me started was the Porto Rocha 20-yr old, and it is still one of my favorites.
However, there are a lot of good 20-yr olds. The Taylor Fladgate is very smooth, elegant, and understated. The Fonseca is in many ways a less expensive version of the Ramos Pinto, at least to me. The Graham's 20-yr old is to me the sweetest one around. Warre's actually makes two different 20-yr olds - the Otima that Eric found on wine-searcher plus a much harder to find standard brand. Both are supposed to be very good, but I've heard that the standard Warre's 20-yr old is better than the Otima 20-yr old.
If you want to stick with a 20-yr old, a half bottle (375 ml) should be in your price range ($25 - $30) and would allow you to get him something very nice.
Good luck!
!Your questions are perfectly reasonable, especially for someone who doesn't drink! Congratulations on your anniversary, and I hope you're able to find a bottle that your husband loves.
As far as your questions go:
1. I'm the only person in my house who drinks Port, and my typical bottle is 20-yr old tawny. So I can assure you with great confidence that a bottle will easily last long enough for one person to enjoy it. I personally find that a 20-yr old is best during the first 2-3 days after which it goes into a bit of a funk for a few days, but some time around 7-10 days after being opened it rebounds back to a very nice and drinkable plateau. It depends on the bottle, but a 20-yr old tawny can maintain that plateau for as much as a month, especially if you store it in the refrigerator.
2. 20-yr old tawnies are normally a little more than $25 - $30, but sometimes you can get lucky. In my experience, most 20-yr olds run in the $40 to $55 range. As with most alcohol, price doesn't always equate to quality - some of the better 20-yr olds (at least in my opinion) can be found for $40 - $45. A 10-yr old is a very different Port than a 20-yr old, so the choice between them should probably be made based on what you're looking for and not just on price. (But yes, a 10-yr old will normally run between $20 and $35 so they're right in your price window.) 10-yr olds often still show a lot of fruity characteristics similar to ruby ports, sometimes still exhibit tannins, and to me feel a little bit unfinished. The best way to describe it is that they're not truly a mature tawny yet, but they're also clearly not a ruby any more. 20-yr olds seem to be the peak of the price/quality ratio for most people, and exhibit all of the classic tawny notes: dried fruits like apricots, a variety of nuts, and sometimes mellow flavors like honey and vanilla.
3. On the plus side, now you know the difference between a real Port and an Australian port-style dessert wine. (Port fanatics tend to use the 'P' and 'p' to denote real Port that comes from Portugal, and those "other drinks" that come from elsewhere but use the word port on their labels.) However, by far the easiest way to know for sure that you're getting Port is to look for the little white paper Selo de Guarantia that goes over the top of the bottle underneath the foil capsule. It typically hangs down on the front and back of the bottle an inch or two and has a serial code on it. Real Port must be approved by the Instituto do Vinho do Porto, and once approved it is given its Selo de Guarantia. Without that paper tag you're not getting real Port. (Really old bottles that have lost their Selos are an exception, of course, but generally come with some sort of paper trail to ensure that they're legitimate.)
As far as what your husband would like... one bottle is tough to use for comparison. Like Eric, I've never had the Delaforce 10- or 20-yr old tawnies, but I have had many others. Typically, the three most often recommended 20-yr olds are the Ramos Pinto (my personal favorite), the Ferreira Duque de Braganca (the favorite of several others here), and the Sandeman. The Sandeman is pretty bright and acidic. The Ramos Pinto is elegant but powerful. The Ferreira fits in between the two (probably why so many people like it) and is probably the best of both worlds. The Port that got me started was the Porto Rocha 20-yr old, and it is still one of my favorites.
However, there are a lot of good 20-yr olds. The Taylor Fladgate is very smooth, elegant, and understated. The Fonseca is in many ways a less expensive version of the Ramos Pinto, at least to me. The Graham's 20-yr old is to me the sweetest one around. Warre's actually makes two different 20-yr olds - the Otima that Eric found on wine-searcher plus a much harder to find standard brand. Both are supposed to be very good, but I've heard that the standard Warre's 20-yr old is better than the Otima 20-yr old.
If you want to stick with a 20-yr old, a half bottle (375 ml) should be in your price range ($25 - $30) and would allow you to get him something very nice.
Good luck!
Glenn Elliott
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Eric Ifune
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- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States of America - USA
Re: Guidance for a Gift
The Delaforce "His Eminence's Choice" is IMHO one of the better 10 year olds. If you want a step up in quality, a 20 year old would be in order and you may need to pay a bit more. I agree that $30-$40 would be an average price for a good one. You may find a bargin if you shop around. Some of my favorites are Ferriera, Taylors, Noval, Niepoort.
Re: Guidance for a Gift
Eric,
That lineup reminds me of a recent afternoon.
There have been some great suggestions so far. I've been told that some of the Costco stores in CA carry that 20 year old Otima at really low prices and if you can find it there, buy some. The Australian versions can be nice but they are typically of Muscat grapes and offer a completely different flavor profile, albeit one that is typically enjoyable based on the producer and specific product. There are some great values there too. However, many of the purists here (me included) prefer suggesting Ports from the place of their rightful birth.
Whatever you may choose from what others suggest, may I propose that you spend a few extra dollars and buy a 20 year old Tawny for a special gift. The increase in quality over just about any 10 year old is worthy of the modest ($10-25) increase in price, in my humble opinion that is not much for a very special occasion that you are buying a gift for. If I had to suggest one bottle, it would be the Ferreira's Duque de Braganca 20 year old Tawny Port. Sandeman is a close 2nd and usually a bit less expensive.
We hope to see you come back and let us know how your anniversary present was received and enjoyed!
That lineup reminds me of a recent afternoon.
There have been some great suggestions so far. I've been told that some of the Costco stores in CA carry that 20 year old Otima at really low prices and if you can find it there, buy some. The Australian versions can be nice but they are typically of Muscat grapes and offer a completely different flavor profile, albeit one that is typically enjoyable based on the producer and specific product. There are some great values there too. However, many of the purists here (me included) prefer suggesting Ports from the place of their rightful birth.
Whatever you may choose from what others suggest, may I propose that you spend a few extra dollars and buy a 20 year old Tawny for a special gift. The increase in quality over just about any 10 year old is worthy of the modest ($10-25) increase in price, in my humble opinion that is not much for a very special occasion that you are buying a gift for. If I had to suggest one bottle, it would be the Ferreira's Duque de Braganca 20 year old Tawny Port. Sandeman is a close 2nd and usually a bit less expensive.
We hope to see you come back and let us know how your anniversary present was received and enjoyed!
Ambition driven by passion, rather than money, is as strong an elixir as is Port. http://www.fortheloveofport.com
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Lili Robertson
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- Location: Boulder, CO, USA
Re: Guidance for a Gift
Well folks, today is the big day... armed with Port Basics Forum information and recommendations, I will use my lunch time to go to a large liquor store and see what my choices are within FTLOP parameters. Wish me luck. I will report on my mission and, of course, let you know next week whether my sweetheart enjoyed my selection.
I thank each of you for your generous advice.
Warmest regards,
Lili
I thank each of you for your generous advice.
Warmest regards,
Lili
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Moses Botbol
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Re: Guidance for a Gift
:stupid:Eric Ifune wrote:The Delaforce "His Eminence's Choice" is IMHO one of the better 10 year olds. If you want a step up in quality, a 20 year old would be in order and you may need to pay a bit more.
The Delaforce 10 is one of the better 10's for the money. It can be kind of simple and sweet, but in a good way. I buy it now & then and have high regards for it.
20 year may be a little more birthday worthy, but I do not think it's to for me to tell you how much to spend on a gift. I do not think you'll find a 20 year worth getting under $40.00 You know, what is better than a bottle of Delaforce 10? Two bottles of Delaforce 10, lol... :joker:
One interesting gift worth consideration is the "flight sets". I know Grahams (among others) make a set of 4 small bottles in a box, ranging from 10-40 years old. They can be bought for under $100.00
Madeira might be another option for you if shelf life is a consideration. Leacocks 10 or 15 year Bual or Broadbent's 10 year Malmsey are both Madeiras that are easy for the port drinker to branch out on. Both are sweet and easy to enjoy. Shelf life is for a few months once open.
Last edited by Moses Botbol on Fri May 22, 2009 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eric Menchen
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Re: Guidance for a Gift
I thought a little more about the question of, "How much should one spend on a gift?" Obviously that is a personal question, but I did come to this realization: It's easy to say one should splurge one time on a gift. The problem is after you taste it, and decide that's what you really want to drink all the time. :twisted:
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Lili Robertson
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Re: Guidance for a Gift
Hello everyone,
My husband very much enjoyed the Taylor Fladgate, which was on sale for $50.00 (the card on the shelf said it normally sells there for around $65.00, which is probably not a great price, but this place doesn't seem to specialize in Port). I splurged. What can I say? I'm crazy about the guy. He had two glasses and was delighted.
Unfortunately, the local LiquorMart did not have a terrific selection. They did have the 500 ml Ottima, but it wasn't on sale and knowing that I could have ordered it online for less bothered me. I had my heart set on the Ferreira Duque de Braganca, but they don't carry this or many of the other recommendations. However, they do have the DelaForce 20 year, which says "Curious and Ancient" so I'm saving that for the next birthday.
I talked to some folks at work who recommended a couple other stores in town that might have a better selection, so now that I know this is an appreciated gift, I will either order online or try one of these other places.
Okay, for those who are curious, yes, I tried a sip. My husband said he wished he had recorded the whole process to send to all of you. Apparently there was some fear and trepidation followed by the expression a cat makes trying to expel a fur ball or a dog trying to get the peanutbutter off his palette. Too grownup for me, I'm afraid. Nonetheless, I thank you all and plan to return to check the site before making future decisions. Also, now my sweetie is interested in trying Coheiga.
Thank you so much! You are wonderful.
Warmest regards,
Lili
My husband very much enjoyed the Taylor Fladgate, which was on sale for $50.00 (the card on the shelf said it normally sells there for around $65.00, which is probably not a great price, but this place doesn't seem to specialize in Port). I splurged. What can I say? I'm crazy about the guy. He had two glasses and was delighted.
Unfortunately, the local LiquorMart did not have a terrific selection. They did have the 500 ml Ottima, but it wasn't on sale and knowing that I could have ordered it online for less bothered me. I had my heart set on the Ferreira Duque de Braganca, but they don't carry this or many of the other recommendations. However, they do have the DelaForce 20 year, which says "Curious and Ancient" so I'm saving that for the next birthday.
I talked to some folks at work who recommended a couple other stores in town that might have a better selection, so now that I know this is an appreciated gift, I will either order online or try one of these other places.
Okay, for those who are curious, yes, I tried a sip. My husband said he wished he had recorded the whole process to send to all of you. Apparently there was some fear and trepidation followed by the expression a cat makes trying to expel a fur ball or a dog trying to get the peanutbutter off his palette. Too grownup for me, I'm afraid. Nonetheless, I thank you all and plan to return to check the site before making future decisions. Also, now my sweetie is interested in trying Coheiga.
Thank you so much! You are wonderful.
Warmest regards,
Lili
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Andy Velebil
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Re: Guidance for a Gift
Lili,
I am very glad he liked it and happy that we could point you in the right direction. The Delaforce Curious & Ancient is a nice bottle and if he liked the Taylor he will like the Delaforce too.
If you need any help in the future please don't hesitate to ask. Also, please let us know how future bottles you get him go as well. Thanks and hope to hear from you soon.
I am very glad he liked it and happy that we could point you in the right direction. The Delaforce Curious & Ancient is a nice bottle and if he liked the Taylor he will like the Delaforce too.
If you need any help in the future please don't hesitate to ask. Also, please let us know how future bottles you get him go as well. Thanks and hope to hear from you soon.
Andy Velebil Good wine is a good familiar creature if it be well used. William Shakespeare http://www.fortheloveofport.com