My ever first tasting !

[Erik Wiechers]

Yesterday i attended my first ever tasting given by a certified viticulturist. He explained the history of port, showed a movie and said some remarkable things which i want to verify here.
Old port-wine should NEVER be decanted according to him, the air would oxidize the wine too much. Also, a vintage should be drunk within 6 hours.

Then he said that a 10, 20, 30 and even 40 years old tawny does not mean that the wine is that old. It only says something about how a wine of that age should taste. Maybe some of those who work in the industry readers could respond to this ?

The evening itself was quite fun, a nice setting and the viticulturist was a great teller with also some sceptical statements about tasters who could taste "wet underpants" in wine.

The wines we tasted were:

Croft Pink
Kopke Vintage Character
Taylor Quinta de Vargellas VP 1995
Quinta do Noval VP 1985
Niepoort Colheita 1970

The highlight of the evening was definately the Niepoort.
Also he made some bad pricing mistakes. According to him the Niepoort would be worth 500-600 Euro's. LOL

But i had a pleasant evening and went home satisfied and tasted some great wines.

[Andy Velebil]

Erik,
That's great you finally got to attend a tasting, they are a blast!

i attended my first ever tasting given by a certified viticulturist.

Do you know where he was a viticulturist at? I ask because some of the information he gave you is wrong. Old Ports generally do need decanting and to give an example at the Cockburn's tasting last year with Ports back the late 1890's, almost all were decanted at least 4-6 hours. And that was at the advice of Miguel Corte Real who's worked at Cockburn's for 30 years. Regardless of that, I've always decanted my older Ports. After so many years in bottle they need some air to pull themselves together.

Also, a vintage should be drunk within 6 hours.

Then he said that a 10, 20, 30 and even 40 years old tawny does not mean that the wine is that old. It only says something about how a wine of that age should taste.

These are a blend of mulitple vintages of Colheita's that when combined have an average age of 10,20,30,or over 40 years. Some producers final blends are closer in age to 15 years, or 37 years, as they use more older vintages in their blend. But by law the minimum average age has to be at least 10,20...etc.

Yes, Aged Tawny's represent a "house style" and they make up each new blend to represent that house style. That is so if you buy a Cockburn 10 year old tawny this year and then another bottle two years from now they should taste identical.

[Glenn E.]

Then he said that a 10, 20, 30 and even 40 years old tawny does not mean that the wine is that old. It only says something about how a wine of that age should taste.

These are a blend of mulitple vintages of Colheita's that when combined have an average age of 10,20,30,or over 40 years. Some producers final blends are closer in age to 15 years, or 37 years, as they use more older vintages in their blend. But by law the minimum average age has to be at least 10,20...etc.

I've heard many times that this is not true, and I've heard it from people who really ought to know. What I've been told is that the label on a Tawny with an indication of age has nothing to do with the actual age of the Port, but rather indicates the age profile that they're aiming for. Thus a 20-yr old is supposed to represent what a 20-yr old Port should taste like, but it does not mean that the Port is actually 20 years old.

I've heard that in most cases the Port is, in fact, at least as old (on average) as what the label says but that in some cases it is significantly older and that there's nothing preventing it from being younger. For example the Kopke 10-yr old is an average of about 14 years old according to Fernando, the master blender for Kopke.

I guess we have a good question for our next guest, huh?

[Erik Wiechers]

Old Ports generally do need decanting

I know, i always do that myself, thats why i was so surprised hearing him say that.

He is a viticulturist at Hanos, a big wholesale comapny for the hotel and catering industry.
I did not say anything about it because i did not want to have a argument with him.

The movie he showed was about Taylor's which was nice. David Guimaraens gave a tour.

[Eric Menchen]

Then he said that a 10, 20, 30 and even 40 years old tawny does not mean that the wine is that old. It only says something about how a wine of that age should taste.

But by law the minimum average age has to be at least 10,20...etc.

I had been led to believe Andy's version of things, but now I think I'm going with Erik's source. From the regulations, article 5:

1—«Vinho do Porto com indicação de idade»—vinho do Porto com características organolépticas de elevada qualidade, obtido por lotação de vinhos de diversos anos que estagiaram em madeira, de forma a conseguir-se complementaridade de características organolépticas e reconhecido pelo IVDP com direito ao uso da designação nos termos dos números seguintes.
2—A idade mencionada no rótulo exprime o carácter do vinho no que respeita às características organolépticas conferidas pelo envelhecimento em casco, correspondentes à idade indicada.
3—Para obter a aprovação de vinho do Porto com indicação de idade, devem ser entregues no IVDP seis garrafas do vinho a apreciar, representativas do lote efectivamente constituído.
4—As indicações de idade permitidas são:
a) 10 anos de idade;
b) 20 anos de idade;
c) 30 anos de idade;
d) Mais de 40 anos de idade ou 40 anos de idade quando o
vinho tenha como destino os EUA.
5—O vinho do Porto com indicação de idade de 10 anos, 20 anos ou 30 anos pode usar a menção «Velho» ou «Old» e se indicar a idade de mais de 40 anos pode usar a menção «Muito velho» ou «Very old».

Here's Google's translation, which seems pretty reasonable other than "hull" for "in cask"/"em casco":

1 - 'Port Wine with indication of age', Port wine organoleptic characteristics of high quality, obtained by blending wines from several years aging in wood, so as to achieve complementarity of organoleptic and recognized by IVDP entitled to use the designation in the following paragraphs.
2-age on the label expresses the character of the wine regarding organoleptic characteristics conferred by aging hull, corresponding to the indicated age.
3-To obtain the approval of port with indication of age should be delivered to IVDP six bottles of wine to enjoy, representative of the lot actually constituted.
4-indications of age are permitted:
a) 10 years of age;
b) 20 years of age;
c) 30 years of age;
d) More than 40 years of age or 40 years of age when wine is intended for the U.S..
5-Port wine with an indication of the age of 10 years, 20 years or 30 years can use the word 'old' or 'Old' and to indicate age over 40 years can use the words 'Too old' or "Very old."

[Glenn E.]

age over 40 years can use the words 'Too old'

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[Erik Wiechers]

Thanks Eric !

Glenn, me too

[goncalo devesas]

Like a regular portuguese I started tasting Port with 17/18 years old, and my first tasting was the "typical" Port wine, normally in Christmas Eve... the marvellous Ruby and Tawny from Ferreira and the Tawny Calém "Três Velhotes"

Fortunately I discovered the ( Colheitas, Aged Tawnies, Late Bottled Vintage and Vintage )

[Andy Velebil]

Like a regular portuguese I started tasting Port with 17/18 years old, and my first tasting was the "typical" Port wine, normally in Christmas Eve... the marvellous Ruby and Tawny from Ferreira and the Tawny Calém "Três Velhotes"

Fortunately I discovered the ( Colheitas, Aged Tawnies, Late Bottled Vintage and Vintage )

Just don't think about how much money you would have saved had you kept drinking those basic Ruby's and Tawny's and not moved on to the more expensive stuff

[goncalo devesas]

Hi Andy,

for the kind words... now it´s not first tasting but free tastings

[oscarquevedo]

I'll put my two cents in regarding the question of the Port with indication of age:
Actually the IVDP does not control the average age of the blend. In many cases some much older Ports would not been approved by the IVDP for a younger indication of age because they lack flavor and body. Theses tawnies use to be Ports with very light colors and nuts/ citrus / dried fruits flavors. Some Colheitas from special years, such as 1994 or 1997, would hardly be approved as a 10 Years Old because they have a too deep color and fruity flavor for a 10 Years Old Tawny.

That said, as not all the years are good for Vintage Port, the same applies for Tawnies. Better Tawnies will be made in years of light colors and quickly evolving flavors.

[John Trombley]

My information is that a 'viticulturalist' is a vine-grower. Does this individual actually tend vines?

[Andy Velebil]

My information is that a 'viticulturalist' is a vine-grower. Does this individual actually tend vines?

The short answer is generally yes. A friend of mine is the viticulturist for a winery in the Santa Cruz Mountains and his job is to plant, replant, grow, manage the vineyards, supervise workers, weed, pick grapes, repair all sorts of things, drive people around, give tastings, talk at seminars, and just about anything else you can think of. Who says working on a winery was a glamorous job.

[John Trombley]

My information is that a 'viticulturalist' is a vine-grower. Does this individual actually tend vines?

The short answer is generally yes. A friend of mine is the viticulturist for a winery in the Santa Cruz Mountains and his job is to plant, replant, grow, manage the vineyards, supervise workers, weed, pick grapes, repair all sorts of things, drive people around, give tastings, talk at seminars, and just about anything else you can think of. Who says working on a winery was a glamorous job.

I'm sure that you got THAT right!