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Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:38 pm
by Roy Hersh
So far I have not seen any indication that Japan, China and the other Asian countries (Singapore) that seem to be serious about table wine ... have delved into Port wine in any serious way. If they ever wind up fans of Port ... and isn't it inevitable(?) ... it could have a profound effect on the Port market and could easily surpass the consumption of the UK, USA and Canada combined. Even France. 8--) So what do you think, is this the calm before the storm?

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:46 am
by Michael Hann
I don't know much about Japan or China. South Korea, a nation of some 50 million, has a deeply ingrained drinking culture. Drinking -- heavy drinking -- is part and parcel of any serious and important business negotiation. One of their preferred beverages is Soju, a lightly sweet beverage of about 20% alcohol by volume. Hmmmm? Where have I seen that alcohol level combined with modest sweetness before? Additionally, also popular are fruit wines including Bokbunja which has the flavor of black raspberries and is 15% alcohol by volume. I would think that South Korea would be very receptive to port wine. A shrewd marketing campaign that pitched the port brand as the prerogative of sophisticated, elite, powerful men would certainly gain traction. Additionally, the range of port quality and price could be exploited to penetrate the market at all levels: sell expensive VP to the top businessmen, sell moderately expensive age dated tawny and LBV to up-and-coming managers, sell ruby port to the entry level college graduates. Because Korea is very hierarchical, if the port trade could get the executives of some of the top corporations (Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, etc.) and top government officials to get on board the port drinking bandwagon, the practice would propagate down the hierarchy. Also, Koreans seem to be enamored of their celebrities -- movie stars, musical performers -- which could be an additional pathway to insinuating port drinking into their culture.

This is probably going beyond the scope of the subject you introduced, but in the event any port shipper is interested in pursuing business in the South Korean market I have some other comments to make. Doing business in Korea is highly specialized. While the general strategy above may be sound, there would need to be very particular attention paid to learning about the peculiarities of doing business in South Korea. This is something any foreign business has to do to succeed in the Korean business culture -- not just port shippers. Trying to short-circuit this element of an initiative to penetrate the Korean market would doom the enterprise to failure. You need to read several books on the Korean business culture, read several books on Korean history (both political and cultural), and probably hire a consultant who has a long track record of doing business SUCCESSFULLY in South Korea to advise you on the best way to establish business relationships in South Korea. Then you might be ready to investigate further and take the first substantive steps of moving forwards.

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:50 am
by oscarquevedo
I think there are some interest in sweet wines in the Chinese culture. They still only consuming dry wines for special occasions, such as anniversaries and weddings. It is necessary to spend time and money in education so they would start drinking wine in a weekly basis. The same for Port here. The big difference is that while France, Australia and few other countries have been investing huge sums of money in advertisement, Port Wine industry so far has done almost nothing.

Currently, consumption of Port in Asia is incipient, but it can and I hope [beg.gif] it will change. I'm sure that Portugal and the EU would hardly avoid the production of faked Port in China, but in the meantime some would want to taste the original.

Michael, thank you very much for your comments. We don't sell to any other country in Asia besides Hong Kong, but once we take the step to invest in the opening of new Asian markets, I will make sure I learn the local culture and some negotiating tips!

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:55 pm
by Roy Hersh
Fortunately, Oscar has youth on his side, so spending a decade breaking open an oyster-shell of a market like So. Korea ... could work in his lifetime.

Although the Chinese may not be huge wine drinkers, there certainly (esp. HK) are some wealthy wine collectors over there vying for top Bdx. and Burg names. First growths and Grand Cru are easy to find in HK from friends I know that have been there. It must be nice.

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:43 pm
by Michael Hann
Macau might be a possible market, if it is not already, for port. This was formerly a Portuguese colony city that was only handed over at the end of 1999 and continues to enjoy special privileges and status in China.

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:01 pm
by Derek T.
Here in the UK we are still recovering from the shock that the shippers decided to allow Americans to buy our precious Vintage Port and here you all are trying to flog it to 3 billion Chinese and a few hundred million of their neighbours!
[shok.gif] [dash1.gif] [help.gif]

:Naughty: :snooty:

Oscar, don't listen to them - just sell all of your lovely purple juice to us in the UK and send the pink stuff around the world :wink: :lol:

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:49 pm
by Andy Velebil
Oscar,
Don't listen to Derek, those UK'ers wouldn't know a good Colheita if they tried [berserker.gif]

as for Asia,
I think the biggest thing isn't so much the drink itself, it's the high prices those French wines command. So in that respect they become a "status" thing to serve such high priced wines. With top notch Port being so cheap I don't think we have to worry about that, at least for now.

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:38 pm
by Eric Menchen
Derek T. wrote:Here in the UK we are still recovering from the shock that the shippers decided to allow Americans to buy our precious Vintage Port ...
Your mistake from nearly 250 years ago. Get over it. :lol:

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:54 pm
by Gary Banker
With respect to Michael Hann's comments about South Korea, getting celebrities to drink port or getting it into television programs would be a worthwhile approach. The comedies and dramas that my wife watches almost always involve some younger urban professional/business people and older upper-crust folks drinking (mostly) red wine in large bordeaux glasses. I don't have any idea how well the wine is actually penetrating the marketplace.

Traditionally Koreans eat food while drinking alcohol, so it would help to introduce port in a way that would work with the local appetizers. Perhaps the mixed drinks we've discussed in the past. I think that getting port into the Korean market will be an uphill battle. I would promote German riesling first; It works with the traditional cuisine. Derek, you can relax.

My experience with soju started in 1973. I drank a lot of it with the ROK Army. I usually think of lighter fluid rather than sweetness when describing the taste. It seems to sell well in Boston, according to the wine manager of a Blanchard's liquor store. He said that young Koreans were using it in mixed drinks,

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:25 am
by Moses Botbol
Gary Banker wrote:
My experience with soju started in 1973. I drank a lot of it with the ROK Army. I usually think of lighter fluid rather than sweetness when describing the taste. It seems to sell well in Boston, according to the wine manager of a Blanchard's liquor store. He said that young Koreans were using it in mixed drinks,
Yes, soju sells well around Boston. Plastic jugs like water.

Asia is bound to get into port. It's too darn tasty not picked up by some. It's going to be baby steps. Hopefully I will have enough port by then that I don't have to worry about them beating me to my purchases.

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:01 am
by Richard Henderson
If the nouveau riche Chinese started buying Taylor , Graham, and Fonseca the way they are buying first growth bourdeaux, it would certainly be good for the port producers and drive many of the rest of us out of the market. A 2005 Mouton is sitting on the local store shelf at $1,070.00 for a 750 bottle. No quarrels here as that is what the market will bear for now. I am glad to have some first growths inthe cellar . I also have some nice ports so I could drink NV's and have special bottles from time time. It would not surprise me to see port become popular in Asia the way the bourdeaux has.

Re: Collectible wine is already gaining momentum in Asia, what about Port?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:27 pm
by Roy Hersh
Richard,

Fly to WA and come visit me. I'll take you to my local Costco that has the 2005 Mouton for just over HALF of that price.


Michael H.,

Macau does not currently have a solid Port enthusiasm even though there are many of Portuguese decent there (and some ex-Pats as well). We had a beautiful woman come along on one of our trips who was from Macau. Her picture was recently in PORTraits drinking Port on the trip with Sandra Marques (who just happens to be here in Seattle today).