Bill Koch and fakes in WS--Has it happened with port?

[Richard Henderson]

A recent Wine Spectator article with Bill Koch on the cover holding a purported fake magnum of Petrus caused me to wonder if there have been any confirmed incidents of counterfeit labled vintage port or Madeira. The article is comprehensive and speaks of several instances of frauds in vintage wines. Has anyone ever suspected that a particular VP was the real thing?

I am not suggesting it has ever happened but the article can make you paranoid.

[Eric Ifune]

I do worry about it, since I've bought quite a bit of Port and Maderia at auction. I've not had any instance were I'd be suspicious so far. My guess is the prices haven't hit the statosphere so the risk is lower. It seems to me to be as easy to fake a Petrus for 10's or 100's of thousands rather than a Port or Madeira for a couple of thousand.

[Andy Velebil]

I've only seen one fake bottle of Port in person and that was two years ago at a vertical of Croft in which a 1933 turned out to be fake. I've also heard of others who've found some. But counterfeit Ports seem to be quite rare luckily. Lets hope it stays that way!

[Richard Henderson]

Andy, what did that 1933 fake Croft look like? How did you know it was fake? Was it the wine or the label or both that gave it away? Who had it and where had it come from?

[Roy Hersh]

Richard,

A bunch of us had it. Our friend Sean opened it in Boston a couple of years ago this month. Andy, Alex B., Julian, Moses, Sean and me where all in attendance and it was very odd. The wine tasted nothing like real VP and was certainly not representative of a Croft of that age, nor was any Croft made in that particular Vintage that we are aware of. Additionally, it looked from the appearance of the bottle that it was a fake.

I have also seen one counterfeit Quinta do Noval Nacional bottle too.

[Richard Henderson]

Very interesting. Very strange. Very rare, I hope.

[Moses Botbol]

The odd thing with the Croft was the it was faked a while back. The bottle certainly looked old and the label had to been from the 60's perhaps. The contents of the bottle I would not even say was from grapes. Some kind forrest berry you'd taste in Schnapps. It think it had a short cork like I would imagine in a fruit wine might have.

I have also seen and tasted a 1908 Dow that was not port and. Also an old bottle with a handwritten label that looked from 70's or older. This was the most metallic and disgusting thing I have ever tried. My theory on that bottle is that it was part of a large cellar and someone thought 30 years ago it was 1908 Dow and just taped that on the bottle. If there were 100's of legit bottles in the estate, why would someone assume this particular bottle is a fake? More like mistake and the auction house took the bottle back no question.

Faking port would be a lot easier than wine. The capsoles and labels are not as important as the are with BDX and Burg. Many corks are preserved when using tongs. There are not as many experts to discern just from the bottle whether it's fake or not. As long as the bottle is from the right era, you could fake any Graham, Taylor, or Noval.

In the end, I do not think there's as much action in port auction sales to really put the investment into faking port.

[Eric Menchen]

In The Billionaire's Vinegar there is some mention of Port fakes. I believe it happened in the UK at about the same time as the main subject of the book, and the perpetrator was caught.

[Andy Velebil]

That 1933 Croft had a plastic t-cork, a plastic capusle with perforated "dots" along the edge for easy removal (think cheap wine capsules), an obvious old Selo that looked like someone used one of those old copy machines from the 1970's to make it. As soon as i saw the bottle I mentioned to Sean it looked fake, as the Selo and capsule and rounded top (from the bulb-style t-cork) were very suspect. As soon as i removed the capsule the next day at the tasting and saw the t-cork I knew we had a big problem.

It tasted like some kind of berry juice as Moses stated. Matter of fact only a couple of us were brave enough to taste it. It wasn't Port or any alcoholic liquid for that matter. I have no idea what it was.

I understand Sean sent it back to the auction house he bought it at and they refunded his money. But still, there was no way the auction house should have sold this to begin with. I've never seen a VP with that type of capsule and an obviously non-original Selo. Should the auction house done a better screening job? IMO, You bet! Especially in this case where there were so many obvious warning signs (and we've never found a reference for a 1933 Croft VP being sold prior...or anyother tasting note for that matter).

[michael miller]

I believe that the wine merchant Whitwams in England was busted some years ago for doing some fraudulent things. I am not exactly sure what. I received a bottle years ago from Tinamou that was supposed to be one year and producer (according to the label) but the cork was branded an entirely different producer and vintage. This bottle was just happened to come from Whitwams. I think I ordered a 1948 Grahams ( which the label said) and the cork was branded 1958 Noval.
My 2 cents.

Michael

[Moses Botbol]

That 1933 Croft had a plastic t-cork, a plastic capusle with perforated "dots" along the edge for easy removal (think cheap wine capsules), an obvious old Selo that looked like someone used one of those old copy machines from the 1970's to make it.

Yes, that is correct and it was noticable with the capsole that it was a t-cork. Very odd how they let that one slip by, but they took it back no problem.

[Andy Velebil]

Michael,
I've only had a handfull of bottles from Whitwham's, one being the Reserve King Pedro IV (1853). I remember people commenting about how dark it was for such an old Colheita. Then the ensuing conversation where some people thought it was far to dark AND fresh to be from a single vintage. Considering it was consumed with other Colhietas that were of equal or older age, this was completely different in profile from those.

In all fairness, I don't think there are any hard rules that govern what vintage one can use to "top off" an old colheita (see Roy's A Question for the Port Trade in the newsletter). But that does bring up some interesting questions....

[Marc J.]

I did purchase a bottle of Nacional a little while ago that upon further examination of the bottle might of been a fake. The capsule looked right, but the label was a bit suspect. Then I discovered a label under the first label.....

Marc

[Andy Velebil]

I did purchase a bottle of Nacional a little while ago that upon further examination of the bottle might of been a fake. The capsule looked right, but the label was a bit suspect. Then I discovered a label under the first label.....

Marc

Do tell more....

[Richard Henderson]

Yes , Marc, do tell! What label was under the top label? Intriguing....

[Marc J.]

Yeah, the format & colors on the underneath label (white with black letters) is completely different than the top label which is the "traditional" black field with a white box & red lettering which is very similar to other bottles that I have of this particular wine. This is an old bottle so I haven't been able to discern exactly what the lower label actually says...so far I've uncovered half of the date and a few additional other markings.

Marc

[Andy Velebil]

Marc,
Can you post or email some pics of both labels, or the portion underneath? I'm most curious.

[Moses Botbol]

What vintage Nacional is being talked about?

[Eric Menchen]

What vintage Nacional is being talked about?

The 2007. You can buy it here for $85.31. I won't call that a fake, however, but just a bad listing.

[Andy Velebil]

What vintage Nacional is being talked about?

The 2007. You can buy it here for $85.31. I won't call that a fake, however, but just a bad listing.

LOL, yes a bad listing. I emailed them about it just now. Normally a good store but an obvious oppsie