Is there any reason why ruby Port is not sold in a box?

[Roy Hersh]

Given our current thread on box wine, I had to stop and think about this for awhile. Why not produce a 3-liter box of Ruby Port or even Reserve Ruby that can be kept in the refrigerator of even on a shelf and enjoyed over an extended period of time. Reaching the right price point might make this a very valuable tool for reaching younger consumers or at least those who are on a budget and may typically pass on Port for that reason. The extended shelf life would be a major plus.

What do you think?

[Espen S.]

That's a good question.
The tools are there, someone just has to use them. It would be a nice addition to the box wine world.
But yes, price matters.

[Glenn E.]

Seems like you might have stumbled onto a good AQFTPT...

[David Spriggs]

Good idea. I would certainly try it if one was available.
-Dave-

[Rob C.]

Roy,

I think Adrian Bridge half answers your question as to the "reason" in his tranlation of the IVDP rules in the February newsletter:

"Article 20º
Presentation
1 - Notwithstanding the following paragraphs, the Port wine can only be sold, held for sale, introduced into
circulation or shipped in glass bottles with the following nominal capacities in centilitres: 5 to 10 – 20 – 37.5 –
50 – 75 – 100 – 150, except port wine ''with an indication of age'',''Harvest'',''Crusted'',''LBV'' and ''Vintage'' that
may use bottles with a nominal capacity of 300cl.
2 - In duly justified cases, the IVDP IP may authorize beforehand the use of bottles of greater capacity.
3 - Permission is granted to the bottling in bottles of other materials as long as these comply with the national
and Community rules on the suitability of the material for contact with foodstuffs.

Therefore, for sizes above three litres we need special permission. This stems from the fact that the Portuguese used to drink a lot of table wine from 5 litre 'garrafoes'. To help ensure that Port had a quality image the law was introduced. It used to have a maximum size of a magnum and the increase to 3 litres is a recent development."

My guess, though I will defer to someone who can speak Portuguese and who has the inclination to trawl through the IVDP regulations on their website, is that this will come down to a question of semantics about the definition of "bottles" or whatever the original Portuguese word is (Ruby appears to be ruled out from 3 litre bottles, in any event).

If so, my second guess (and apologies if this is highly unfair - I say in jest) is that Mr Wiseman will not be nearly as passionate about fighting this battle as the article in Feb's newsletter suggested he was in respect of large format VP bottles!

In the meantime - as the "naughty corner" gallery of port imposters on the IVDP site would indicate, Goa might be your best bet for boxed port:


(see: http://www.ivp.pt/pagina.asp?codPag=96& ... 6&idioma=1)

[Eric Ifune]

I'd do it.

[goncalo devesas]

Once that it is the most extensively produced...most of the portuguese wines sold in Portugal are in a price range between 2€-5€ and were bottled in a box, so maybe it will be a nice change to increase the sales...
Of course that I would prefer the .

[Moses Botbol]

10 year tawny in a box. Big hit with the consumer.

[David Spriggs]

10 year tawny in a box. Big hit with the consumer.

LOL!

[Roy Hersh]

Should we start a FTLOP box of Port revolution?

I think this will be my next Facebook (For The Love Of Port) entry!

[Daniel R.]

I only have visibility of the Portuguese market, but my opinion is that selling Port in a box is not a good idea. In Portugal there is a lot of cheap Port (4 to 10 Euros) that is used mostly for cooking or bought by an aging group of people. VP, Colheita, and aged tawnys are sold in small amounts and are (outside of the small number of consumers of this type of Port) perceived as an expensive product sold principally to foreigners. The paradox is that many people who will not hesitate in paying 50 Euros for a bottle of whisky find that amount of money too much for Port. In my opinion the general availability of very cheap Port in Portugal damages the image of Port as a whole. Selling it in a box is going to magnify this effect. Just my

[Glenn E.]

VP, Colheita, and aged tawnys are sold in small amounts and are (outside of the small number of consumers of this type of Port) perceived as an expensive product sold principally to foreigners. The paradox is that many people who will not hesitate in paying 50 Euros for a bottle of whisky find that amount of money too much for Port.

In my experience, and with only a couple of exceptions, VP, Colheita, and tawnies with an indication of age are all overpriced in Portugal. Granted I haven't been very far outside of the prime tourist areas, but when I can save 50% by buying my Port in Seattle instead of in Porto there's something wrong.

Perhaps the Portuguese might drink more high-quality Port if it weren't priced so outrageously in Portuguese stores?

[Roy Hersh]

The paradox is that many people who will not hesitate in paying 50 Euros for a bottle of whisky find that amount of money too much for Port.

Daniel,

I enjoyed the points you raised in your post and from a Portuguese perspective, I do understand what you are saying. However it does sadden me to read that one of the most basic industries, one which has done so much for the prestige of the Portuguese citizenry, is not really being supported as it should be. First and foremost, Port should sell well in Portugal, even though the population is modest and sales will never be huge. Still, it is my hope that something can be done within Portugal to get the people to not only support Douro wines (and those from other great regions like Dão, and Bairrada, but the central and southern regions of the Alentejo, Ribatejo and Estremadura too). But Port is different and should be viewed as the national beverage, the way American's worship their Coca Cola and Budweiser.

All joking aside, if the Portuguese people are not willing to support the beverage that helped rebuild the capital city, that is an issue. When things were looking bleak back in 1755 after the calamity of a biblically proportioned earthquake, followed quickly by a 70 foot tall Tsunami which hit the city square on, and to add insult to injury ... shortly thereafter, 1/3 of the city burned to the ground in a horrific 3-day fire that was very deadly. Now that was a seriously bad week ... but on the shoulders of the Port trade, the Marques de Pombal changed the business structure of Port, putting in severe regulations and tarrifs, and both demarcating the Douro vineyard area and rebuilding Lisboa with money raised by Port. That alone should instill a greater national pride and loyalty towards Port, however what the trade does in terms of employment numbers and the ancillary industries like bottle makers, the support of the cork industry and so many other businesses like tourism; it is really surprising what you say about Port in relation to whisky.

Whisky? PORTugal has its priorities messed up! I love the Portuguese people but there should be a grassroots Port-support-rally and public holiday held one day every year.

Back to a more pleasant topic ...

Nobody said that a Ruby Port of quality in a box, had to be cheap and bring down the price to something embarrasingly low or unsustainable. The Port companies would have to be able to make some money on boxes, not just the retailers. Bring the price up to a reasonable price point and I think that there would be good support in some EU countries and certain markets in North America as well.

Ok, I see my new company unfolding right in front of me!

[Eric Menchen]

I'd buy Noval Ruby in a box. Given that success, it could be followed by the Black Box.

[Roy Hersh]

Eric,

I was thinking the same thing earlier about the Black. Just think of how cool you could make that package for Noval Black in a 3-liter box.

Ok, so not everyone would be buying this upscale version, but how many would love to have a high quality Ruby Reserve in a simple to serve, shelf stable bag-in-box that had a decent spiggot? The price point is likely an issue, but I bet in key markets this could be big.

Is this the product that brings in the younger generation? The equivalent of 4 bottles of Port, is like a party in a box. Not in line with "wine in moderation" though. It would certainly make a nice introduction for people that are willing to explore something new and fun. It would have to be affordable that is a given.

[Eric Menchen]

Aren't there 1.5 liter boxes as well? That might be more reasonable.

[Andy Velebil]

Eric,

I was thinking the same thing earlier about the Black. Just think of how cool you could make that package for Noval Black in a 3-liter box.

Ok, so not everyone would be buying this upscale version, but how many would love to have a high quality Ruby Reserve in a simple to serve, shelf stable bag-in-box that had a decent spiggot? The price point is likely an issue, but I bet in key markets this could be big.

You hit the nail on the head for me personally. I'd buy a good quality Port-in-a-box in a heart beat. Mainly as it's shelf stable with those bags within the box. I can keep it in the fridge for a long time and enjoy a glass or two a night and not have to worry about the quality of the Port inside deteriorating. For me that is the biggest upside.

Of course, it would also have to be priced competitively as well.

[Daniel R.]

Daniel,

I enjoyed the points you raised in your post and from a Portuguese perspective, I do understand what you are saying. However it does sadden me to read that one of the most basic industries, one which has done so much for the prestige of the Portuguese citizenry, is not really being supported as it should be. First and foremost, Port should sell well in Portugal, even though the population is modest and sales will never be huge. Still, it is my hope that something can be done within Portugal to get the people to not only support Douro wines (and those from other great regions like Dão, and Bairrada, but the central and southern regions of the Alentejo, Ribatejo and Estremadura too). But Port is different and should be viewed as the national beverage, the way American's worship their Coca Cola and Budweiser.

All joking aside, if the Portuguese people are not willing to support the beverage that helped rebuild the capital city, that is an issue.

You are absolutely right, I agree this is an issue. Just look at how much Champagne and Bordeaux is bought by the local market and compare it to Port... The fact is that Port does not sell well in Portugal.

I agree with Glenn that pricing is an issue: cheaper Port is too cheap and VP, Colheita and Tawny with indication of age is too expensive.

[Richard Henderson]

Call me a curmudgeon but I don't buy wine of any kind in 3 liter boxes. I associate it with cheap wines sold to alcoholics I have known. Add the 20% content of alcohol and I think that is the direction port in a three litre box would take and the image that would be derived. I think it would be negatively percevied similar to Thunderbird, or Night Train, very cheap port traditionally sold to winos. It is associated with alcohol abuse.
I share Daniel R's concerns .

[Roy Hersh]

It is all about the packagining and the contents of the Port inside it. If a reasonable priced product that is as good as a Ruby Reserve could be made affordable and put into a GREAT looking box, heck, I'd be a buyer too.