TN: 2004 Quinta do Vale Dona Maria Douro

[Andy Velebil]

I bought a bunch of these on release and have cellared them in 57 degree storage since. Decanted an hour, then consumed over the next 3. The color had some noticeable bricking. On the palate the tannins were a bit slow to show up, building as it sat open. As it went on the tannins ended up way out of balance to the rest of the wine. The body was lighter with red tart fruit and lacking in complexity. The finish was simple and lacked length. If this was a $15 wine it would be what I'd expect at that price point. I've had this twice now this year and the first was similar to this one. So this isn't a case of a bad or off bottle, which was what I thought was the case with the first bottle. Having had this periodically since it's release, I'm sorry to say this just isn't aging well. I'd recommend drinking these up soon.
88 Points

[Rune EG]

Are we seeing indications of how far the Vale D Maria is lasting?
Recently I had a 2002 (15 years) and it was no good, and now you have 2004 (13 years) which seems to be on the way down.
Through the years I have been buying and consuming a lot of this wine together with friends and family and in general I get positive feedback, nearly regardless of vintage (2007 be ing the oldest with good scores). Except one bottle of 2002, my oldest is a magnum of 2007. May be time to drink?

[Andy Velebil]

Are we seeing indications of how far the Vale D Maria is lasting?
Recently I had a 2002 (15 years) and it was no good, and now you have 2004 (13 years) which seems to be on the way down.
Through the years I have been buying and consuming a lot of this wine together with friends and family and in general I get positive feedback, nearly regardless of vintage (2007 be ing the oldest with good scores). Except one bottle of 2002, my oldest is a magnum of 2007. May be time to drink?

The reason why I posted about when I bought them, how they've been stored and this being the second bottle is for exactly that reason. So no one can say it was poor storage, provenance, etc. IMO, these are wonderful young wines. But I would agree with your premise that we are seeing the limits of their age-ability...at least for this wine and for other vintages around it. If I owned older ones, or even some that are a bit younger, I'd be pulling them to check on them.

Of course that could have changed with younger ones, and time will tell. But if I owned any younger ones I would not blindly hold them without periodically pulling one and trying it to see how that particular vintage is maturing.

I've got about a 1/2 a case left of the 2003, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010, and 2011 in storage. My next trip to it I'll be pulling all the 2003 and 2004 to bring home and drink and a couple of the 2007 and 2009 to see how they are maturing. Will let you know on those in due course.

[Brian C.]

I know I've asked about this before, but is this part of a dumb phase? Does anybody know how it works with Douro table wines? Is the dumb phase with port purely a byproduct of the aguardente, or are the grapes themselves the reason or a part of the reason?

[Andy Velebil]

I know I've asked about this before, but is this part of a dumb phase? Does anybody know how it works with Douro table wines? Is the dumb phase with port purely a byproduct of the aguardente, or are the grapes themselves the reason or a part of the reason?

IMO, yes some upper end Douro wines have dumb phases. But these wines aren't in a phase. These have oxidation issues and evolution issues which are not seen on wines simply in a dumb phase. Again, that is on older ones and I'll post about some younger ones when I pull them from my cellar and give me a go.

As for your second part. I feel it's how the grapes themselves behave. And on upper end wines, like Port, they go through dumb phases when young. Not as extensive as VP's but they still have phases.


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[Brian C.]

Andy, are we talking premox here? I did run across a few articles about premox in reds.

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[Andy Velebil]

Andy, are we talking premox here? I did run across a few articles about premox in reds.

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I will make an assumption the producer intended this to age without oxidation issues longer than it has. However, I don't think it's your typical premox issue like what is typical in White Burgs. I think something didn't go as planned in the production of this and that has caused the issues me and Rune have experienced. I only say that as I've not experienced premox issues with other Douro reds from this period, or any recent period of time. The only other wine I can say that is showing some oxidation is Niepoort's Redoma Reserva from 2005. But even with that one I think it was just an early learning curve in making the Reserva as I've had some older regular Redoma's that have held up just fine. I've got a 2005 I plan on opening in the next week so I'll pay extra close attention to how that one is.

[Andy Velebil]

I've posted on the 2003 vintage as promised.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40933

[Andy Velebil]

I've had another bottle of this last night. There was no real change other than this one was a bit more overtly sweet showing. Drink these up NOW if you own them. They will not hold up beyond the next couple years and will fall off a cliff very soon.

[Frederick Blais]

A lot of people like this style of wine. It reminds me of the super Toscan wave from 1997 and forward. Wines that are made to be impressive when they are young, but as they age they loose quill instead of gaining some. Still with some age, some will like it for the concentration and texture before freshness and complexity. I did recently taste the vinified by Van Zeller Casal de Loivois 2001 and this one was really aging well. Reading back, I always liked the 2002 vale Dona Maria, it was harvested ealier by fear of the rain, that's why it has lower alcool and less maturity than normally. My last bottle was consumed 2 years ago, and that is definitively my style of Douro wine with age : great complexity and lots of minerality, Vale Meao 2002 is showing similar profile but even better imo.