DAN CARBON - November's Forum Guest Corner Host

[Glenn E.]

Perhaps an unique bottle and label would help the Colheita? Downplay what it is and just target the yumminess that is "in your face" of anyone who tries it. SW Colheita, as is Otima speaks for itself in the glass.

Unique and interesting bottles - like what you use for Warre's Otima - can go a really long way toward attracting customers. I must sheepishly admit that my wife and I make a lot of red wine label purchases simply because she likes just about any kind of red wine and we need something - anything - to help make that purchasing decision. I'm sure there are other people out there who do the same for Port and dessert wines.

Warre's Otima is a very attractive presentation that really stands out on the shelves. I just looks classy next to all those dowdy old bottles of other stuff, and I'm sure that's a big part of why it sells so well. Being able to actually see the wine's gorgeous color is enticing. Of course a clear glass bottle probably isn't a good idea for a Colheita because those are often bottle aged after purchase, but there are other ways to make a bottle look and feel classy.

I don’t know of any other Reserve Tawny Ports aside from Graham’s The Tawny, which does not have distribution in the US at this time.

Dan, given the success of Graham's Six Grapes, is there a possibility that a similarly premium product such as Graham's The Tawny might be brought into the US? Or is tawny consumption in the US not high enough to warrant distribution of a Tawny Reserve?

I agree, there is no doubt that education is key to the future of the Port trade.

Everyone seems to know this, but no one seems to know how to get it done.

I think you need a grass roots campaign, but not in the traditional sense. I get the impression that your budgets aren't large enough to do a serious mass-market campaign, so start smaller and educate the retailers first. Let them, in turn, educate their customers.

Nothing sells as well as a passionate retailer, but sadly I have met many who don't really know the difference between vintage port, ruby port, tawny port, and colheita. Get the information in their hands through events like the ones that Dominic has been doing and I think you'll start to see some growth.

Now if you could just figure out a way to make a dozen or so clones of Dominic so that you could do more tastings...

[Symington Family]

Now if you could just figure out a way to make a dozen or so clones of Dominic so that you could do more tastings...

So its working! You actually think there is only one Dominic.

Thank you for your input, all very thought provoking. The challenge is to re-create the Otima affect, but not copy it and canibalize sales. Not easy but that is why I get paid in Port.

I am hopeful that at some point a Reserve Tawny like Graham's The Tawny will be sold in the US, but the current economy is not a time to launch it.

Regarding education, it seems obvious that it is the key, but the shear size of the US market makes a grassroots approach the only way (for a Port producer) and that takes time - unless through social networking a wave is started that turbo -boosts the process...

Thanks again.

[Frederick Blais]

Hi Dan, tanks for taking the time to answer and elaborate on the Capela Port. Unfortunately, we'll not see it in Quebec, neither the top wine of Vesuvio

I'd like to read your opinion on the Port market. Will it grow, diminish in quantity but quality will rise?

How important do you think the tourism will be part in making Port industry more viable. Any fear of loosing the authenticity of the region with the increase of tourism?

Fred

[Moses Botbol]

Dan-

Grahams Questions...

What are your favorite pre and post war Grahams?

Will Grahams ever release a dry wine? Seems like that would be the name to release most elite dry wine under.

Is Grahams Crusted imported to USA? What is your impressions on it? How far back are bottles available?

I found that the Grahams website really nailed the descriptions of the vintages back to 1950. Good job on the tasting notes.

[Symington Family]

Dan,

Without giving away any trade secrets, are there any NEW projects that you are able to tell us about with either Port or Douro wine (or both)?

Hi Roy. First, thanks again for inviting me to do this. I am having a great time.

There are so many new wines in the pipeline right now my head swims sometimes trying to keep track. Paul and I were discussing a new one 10 minutes ago. Innovation is vital to the Port category, so new product development is a very important part of my work. The NPD process is lengthy and can be quite costly – even if the wine never goes to market and much more so if it does and fails. With Otima the development timeline was long and the packaging was redesigned several times. Ultimately a very good result but only after a lot of work behind the scenes (for the record, I had nothing to do with the development of Otima, but wish I had a $1 for every person who has told me that they did!). I have tried to put a more disciplined process in place to manage the development of the growing number of new product concepts. The approach is more formalized and does a decent job of weeding out the bad eggs before they get to market. The process went particularly well with Warre’s Warrior – a complete repackaging that I was involved with and am very happy with the results. We hired a top UK design firm and worked with a consumer research company to come up with the new package. It’s too early to know how it will impact sales, but the feedback from our distributors and clients has been great.

I just paused to review the projects on the table. 6 new Ports, 3 new DOC table wines. Some really exciting stuff on both fronts. One of them, a personal passion of mine, takes the essence of the Otima concept and blends it with the heritage that makes Port alluring; it will be like the Aston Martin of Ports. Keep an eye on your Port shelves…

[Alan Gardner]

Welcome Dan,
My general question probably needs a book to answer:
‘With the replanting of vineyards to fewer varieties, combined with various sales/transfers of ‘core vineyards’; have there been some ‘changes’ in house styles of the major houses?’

To make this more specific, obviously Vesuvio has changed (and improved) dramatically. But I’m more interested in the major houses (specifically Warre’s but feel free to comment generally). For Warre, in particular, I think I’ve detected a ‘variation in style’ between older (1977 and prior) vintages, and ‘younger’ (1985 and subsequent) vintages. It must be emphasized that others on this Board have not detected such a change, so it is certainly possible that my palate is changing, but I haven’t detected a comparable ‘variation in style’ with Dow and Graham (as examples). Has anything ‘major’ changed with Warre’s (in particular), or other properties, that could lead to a change in ‘style’?

[Symington Family]

Are there any plans on making a high end white wine for generally release?

Hi Andy.

Every year the family makes a White Altano Reserva, but it is not commercially available and there are no plans to make it so. The Douro is more suited to red grapes and as such the quality of white grapes cannot be guaranteed from year to year. The Symington’s do not produce enough white grapes to ensure the volume needed for a top end white wine and since we choose not to buy in grapes for our premium wines, we don’t want to build a market for a wine that we cannot supply consistently. So, until that changes, you will only be able to try our top white wines when you are visiting us in Gaia or at one of the quintas in the Douro.

[Symington Family]

Hi All. Today I went to the Factory House for lunch. There was a tasting of Vintage Ports from the 80's, including the '80, '83, and '85's from Graham, Dow, Warre, Martinez, Churchill, Croft, Taylor, and Fonseca. A great lineup. I thought the '85s were a step up on the '83's and got surprised by a Martinez '82 (in fact the '85 and '87 were very nice also). But the Dow '80...wow.

I will be back online in a few hours. Keep the questions coming!

[Roy Hersh]

Hi Dan,

For me, the 1980 Dow is the top VP of the vintage. The sleeper, 1980 Gould Campbell ... a delicious young Port that is beautiful today.


Now my question for you (for today ). I've read so much mis-information on the number of approved grape varieties that are allowed to be used for Port production. Would you know:

a. How many total grape types are approved for Port production overall?

b. Do you know the breakdown of that total into White grapes vs. Red grapes approved for Port?

c. Is the number the exact same for Douro wine production?

[Symington Family]

What are your favorite pre and post war Grahams?
Will Grahams ever release a dry wine?
Is Grahams Crusted imported to USA?
I found that the Grahams website really nailed the descriptions of the vintages back to 1950.

Are you by any chance referring to the Gulf War? If so I had the pleasure of tasting the Graham’s ’80, ’83 and ’85 today and would put the ’80 in top billing. Working in the trade provides me with the opportunity to taste quite a lot of different Ports. But pre-war Ports are rare, even within the trade. Every Wednesday there is a lunch at the factory house and an age old tradition of serving Vintage Port at the end of the meal – but I have never seen a pre-war Port served. The Vintages I taste are almost always from ’66 forward. When Roy was last here we had a Malvedos ’64 that I thought was holding up remarkably well.

A Graham’s still wine? Possible, but there is nothing in the works currently. The Vale do Bomfim wines in the US are under the Dow brand and have been very well received.

Graham’s Crusted is not sold in the US. I think it's one of the best value wines on the planet. Seriously. I think it was first bottled in 1998 but that’s a guess that I will confirm tomorrow. (I have since confirmed this with Henry Shotton, our Head Master of Vintage).

Glad to hear you found tasting notes on the Graham’s site useful. I actually think the tasting notes are ok but need to be updated with more contemporary comments reflecting how the wines are drinking today. More work to do.

[Moses Botbol]

Are you by any chance referring to the Gulf War?

If so I had the pleasure of tasting the Graham’s ’80, ’83 and ’85 today and would put the ’80 in top billing.

Well, not exactly , but I find it interesting you'd say 1980 as I find it a tight port that is not as sweet as '85.

[Symington Family]

a. How many total grape types are approved for Port production overall?
b. Do you know the breakdown of that total into White grapes vs. Red grapes approved for Port?
c. Is the number the exact same for Douro wine production?

Total grape varieties approved for Port is 89. Same for table wines.

Approved White grapes :29 (14 are recommended and a further 15 are authorized)

Approved Red grapes :60 (24 are recommended and a further 36 are authorized)

While this number is high, reflecting the richness of the Douro region, Touriga Nacional, Touriga Franca, Tinta Barroca, Tinta Amarela, Tinta Roriz and Tinto Cão are the favored grapes for Port production and the varieties most often chosen for the new block plantings.

[Roy Hersh]

Wow, what a fantastic read this thread makes and Dan has been fantastic as our guest host this week. We're half way through this week and I see things slowing down a bit. Come on folks, this is your cheerleader saying get out and speak up. This is a great chance to learn and ask great questions and have incredibly forthright answers come your way!


I'd love to see some of our new members venture in here and take a chance and ask a question, as I know you folks must be very curious or you wouldn't be here in the first place.

Take the challenge.

[Derek T.]

this is your cheerleader

That has left me with a very disturbing image in my head -

I'm off for a glass of wine to try to think up a question to move this along...

[Moses Botbol]

Dan:

Do the Symingtons have plans to expand beyond Douro and Madeira for Portuguese wine?

Have the Symingtons ever produced a Kosher wine or port?

[Andy Velebil]

Dan,

The Symington's are also involved in Madeira. Can you inform us as to their exact involvement?

Are there any new, upcoming, Madeira things to expect in the near future (a new older release, younger Colheita, etc)?

[Andy Velebil]

Dan,

Question #2 since Roy threw down the gauntlet

Smith Woodhouse is one that typically flies under the radar, yet is a house that I've often enjoyed for some stunning Ports. However, there is not a lot of information about it on the web site (hint, hint ). Other than Madalena, which is only about 6-7 hectares IIRC, are there any other Symington properties who's grapes go into the Smith Woodhouse Vintage Ports?

Smith Woodhouse also has some Colheita's, yet they aren't mentioned on the website (hint, hint again ). What years have been released so far and are what is the next Colheita year to be released?

[David Spriggs]

Hi Dan!

When we were at Quinta do Bomfim this October, we saw that all of the wines appeared to be made by autovinification. I was shocked by that. My understanding was that autovinification was an inferior method for making Vintage Port... but obviously I've had to rethink that. So my question...What is the thinking of the Symingtons with respect to trodding grapes? Do they have a preference between foot trodding, robotic lagars, autovinitication, etc? What is their thinking behind what method they have chosen to use at each property?

Thanks!
-Dave-

[Roy Hersh]

Forgetting about Shippers or "brands" for the moment ... what category of Port do you enjoy drinking the most?

At home what do you and Mrs. Carbon drink most often in terms of Port -- but also non-Portuguese wine?

[Julian D. A. Wiseman]

Quarles Harris: seen and tasted only rarely by me.

Is QH a brand to be a purpose to otherwise idle grapes, or does it have stylistic consistency? If the latter, please say more?