1983 Vintage for a birthday present

[Kelly J.]

Greetings,

My fiance and I are very new to port but already loving it. As we currently reside in Santa Cruz mountains of California, our only exposure thus far has been the local flavor and Napa-style ports. We have tried a couple tawnies at restaurants and decided they are not for us. Based on my searches for the ports we have tried and liked, I realize that we are babies at this hobby as nothing we've tried is even rated or in databases All are young, usually zinfandel-based.

We've been itching to try some vintages but uncertain as to what direction we should go in. His birthday is coming up at the end of April and as we've recently decided to make this a hobby of ours, I'd like to get him a vintage from his year of birth (1983). The problem is, I'd like to have half a shot at actually liking it. Based on little other than vintage year, ratings, and price point my best guess is a 1983 Cockburn Vintage.

Is there anyway to compare our tastes for these young Napa-style ports for our first dive into a vintage? Can you point me in a direction to research? Curious to hear your thoughts!

Thanks,
Kelly

[Glenn E.]

The 1983 Cockburn is a fabulous Port... when it isn't corked. Sadly there seems to be a very high incidence of corked bottles with this particular Port, so I really can't recommend that you buy one unless it is ridiculously cheap. Like $30. Figure you'll need to buy at least 2 to have a decent chance of getting one that isn't corked, and don't buy those 2 bottles from the same source. You might need to buy 4.

Instead, go for a Graham or a Gould Campbell. Both are excellent and also fairly affordable. Personally I'd get a Graham, but that's because I tend to like their Ports.

[Lamont Huxley]

If you haven't delved into Vintage Port at all as of yet I'd have to think that any 83 Vintage Port would be a revelation (assuming you wind up with a bottle that is in good condition). There are plenty of good "port style" wines out there but nothing that's quite the same as a true Vintage Port. Hopefully your first experience is a good one and you'll be hooked like the rest of us! Cheers!

[Kelly J.]

Thanks for the replies guys... sounds like the Cockburn is out then. I'd like to find a tried and true bottle with less risk! It's rough making these decisions without tasting :-/ Thanks for the recommendations and welcome, Glenn! I'll look for tasting notes, etc on your recommendations.

I'd like to get him some port tongs, as well. I'm not sure if they are necessary for an '83, but he's a tool man and I think he'd enjoy them So far I've only found some on portwine.com. That surprises me! Any recommendations on where I can find these?

Thanks again, guys :)

Kelly

[Eric Menchen]

I like the 1983 Smith Woodhouse, more so than Graham's, but this is just my preference. Both should serve you well. You shouldn't need tongs for an '83, but they are a fun gift!

[Glenn E.]

I'd like to get him some port tongs, as well. I'm not sure if they are necessary for an '83, but he's a tool man and I think he'd enjoy them

Strictly speaking they're not necessary for any Port, but it's a lot of fun to watch them being used! Using tongs definitely adds an air of mystique to the opening and decanting of a bottle of Port.

I've been thinking about your first post, and it occurs to me that if most of what you've tried is from California and/or made from the Zinfandel grape (neither of which are really Port, but rather fortified wines or sometimes port-style wines), then you might not like a Graham or Gould Campbell. Graham and Gould Campbell both tend toward the sweeter and fruitier end of the Port spectrum. My experience with California fortified wines is that while typically sweet, they're typically closer to what I'd call "jammy" than "fruity" and I think that comes from using Zinfandel grapes. I suggest that you try an LBV Port first to make sure you actually like real Port before you invest in a more expensive bottle like a 1983 Vintage Port. LBV stands for Late-Bottled Vintage, and it's a less expensive Port that is pretty close in quality to a Vintage Port.

I'm also curious about your experience with tawny Port. Have you tried actual Tawny Port that comes from Portugal, or have the ones you've tried also been from California (or more likely, Australia)? Because again, Californian and Australian tawnies (which the Australians sometimes call "stickies") taste very different than actual Tawny Port from Portugal. I love Yalumba's tawnies... but they're not at all the same as a real Tawny Port.

As you may be realizing, there's considerable confusion in the industry because for decades the name Port has been used improperly by wines that aren't actually Port. To find a real Port, look for the little semi-decorative white paper tag that sticks out from beneath the capsule on the bottle. That's called the Selo de Guarantia, or "selo" for short, and it ensures that the wine you're buying is proper Port made in Portugal.

Anyway... I digress. Didn't mean to break out the soapbox.

[Al B.]

I love the 1983 vintage ports - there are some really good ones and they are still quite easy to buy.

I can't recommend Cockburn as a first bottle of 1983, the incidence of cork taint is just too much. If and when you manage to open a bottle that is not corked, it is a fabulous port - but my experience is that only 1 in 3 bottles shows well.

Instead, I would recommend one of my favourites from the vintage. These are Dow, Graham and Warre. Of this list, I slightly prefer the elegant and floral Warre over the other two.

[Kelly J.]

Thanks for you considerate response, Glen. This was precisely the reason I started this post as I am interested to discover how the Napa/Zin ports we've experienced compare to a true vintage port. "Fruity" and "sweet" are music to my ears, I hope the reality is as good. The only exposure I've had to the Tawny ports are at nice restaurants... to be honest I don't recall what they were other than a "20 year" in the name. Of the two, at least one tasted a bit medicinal. It sounds like you are suggesting I give them another try and make sure I try a real Portugal port.

I think I'd still like to get him a vintage port as it is his birthday and he's been wanting to try one. What better occasion to try it? It sounds like I should get a more moderately priced one and make sure this isn't the only present in case it doesn't go over well.

Thanks again for your thoughts and advise, Glen.

-Kelly

I've been thinking about your first post, and it occurs to me that if most of what you've tried is from California and/or made from the Zinfandel grape (neither of which are really Port, but rather fortified wines or sometimes port-style wines), then you might not like a Graham or Gould Campbell. Graham and Gould Campbell both tend toward the sweeter and fruitier end of the Port spectrum. My experience with California fortified wines is that while typically sweet, they're typically closer to what I'd call "jammy" than "fruity" and I think that comes from using Zinfandel grapes. I suggest that you try an LBV Port first to make sure you actually like real Port before you invest in a more expensive bottle like a 1983 Vintage Port. LBV stands for Late-Bottled Vintage, and it's a less expensive Port that is pretty close in quality to a Vintage Port.

I'm also curious about your experience with tawny Port. Have you tried actual Tawny Port that comes from Portugal, or have the ones you've tried also been from California (or more likely, Australia)? Because again, Californian and Australian tawnies (which the Australians sometimes call "stickies") taste very different than actual Tawny Port from Portugal. I love Yalumba's tawnies... but they're not at all the same as a real Tawny Port.

[Kelly J.]

Eric and Al,

Thanks for your recommendations! Adding them to my research pile.

My next question would be: where to buy? I had assumed I'd just buy from an online store. Any good or bad ones I should know about?

Kelly

[Eric Menchen]

A good place to start is wine-searcher.com. There is a pro version, but you will find what you are looking for with the free version. Using wine-searcher looking for Graham's, I see a winebid.com listing, but the bottle has a WSL, wine soaked label. I'd drink it, but for a gift I'd look for something nicer. And winebid will be at least +15% buyer's premium, possibly more for tax in CA. European Wine Resource has it for $56. I've bought from both winebid and EWR and been happy. Knightsbridge shows up with a half bottle listing, and while I've bought from them before and been happy, that bottle is overpriced. The next familiar names I see are Wine Consigners and Benchmark. Wine Consigners seems a little bit of a pain for shipping, but I've never bought from them, so I can't really say for sure. I've not bought from Benchmark, but I think Glenn has. Glenn?

Smith Woodhouse seems a little harder to find. I bought a bunch of 1983 earlier this year from Acker Merril & Condit, and a bottle last week from winebid.com, but there aren't a lot of listings on wine-searcher.com at the moment. The first is Benchmark, $65; and the second is Graileys. See above on Benchmark. I've spoken with Graileys before, but not purchased from them.

Since Al mentioned Warres, a house I do like, I looked that one up also. Cellaraiders and EWR come up with bottles. I've bought from Cellaraiders and got a good price on some bottles, but found that some were in poor condition relative to any description. I'd buy again from them, but only at a discounted price. I already mentioned EWR.

[Glenn E.]

I've not bought from Benchmark, but I think Glenn has. Glenn?

Benchmark is great - I've bought from them in the past and would happily buy from them again. They're also in Napa Valley, so shipping should be very reasonable for someone in California.

[John M.]

Hi Kelly;

I would look at the 1985's, too. A bit more selection/availability. Fonseca is thought of as the best of that year and can be found for $90/$100 plus shipping. I've seen Smith Woodhouse around $60 plus shipping. For one bottle, shipping may be too much. You may be better off seeing if anyone within 20 miles has a VP suitable. Good Luck

[Carl D]

Benchmark is great - I've bought from them in the past and would happily buy from them again. They're also in Napa Valley, so shipping should be very reasonable for someone in California.

I'd second that!

[Eric Menchen]

Oh, and if you are in Los Gatos and actually want to see before you buy, another option is K&L. They have a retail location in Redwood City. The have the 1983 Graham's there for the overpriced amount of $99.99. Their main warehouse has Quarles Harris for $34.99. QH isn't the same quality as Graham's, but that price is more in line with what I would expect.

[Andy Velebil]

Kelly,

The others have already given some great advice so I'll just say to the Forum, great to have you with us.

I do hope you don't give up on Tawny's. Sadly most Ports by the glass at restaurants, even high end restaurants, typically have been sitting open on a bar for a LONG time and don't show nearly as well as they should when freshly opened. This issue is a major gripe and very frustrating for many of us here. I'd recommend giving them a try again, but from bottles you know have just been opened.

[Eric Ifune]

I was just going to mention 20 year olds at restaurants but Andy beat me to it. I wouldn't trust the Ports, even at a very high end place, unless I see the bottle opened. Most of the time, the bottle has been sitting open for weeks or months. That may be the source of the medicinal taste you seem to be getting.
Again, welcome!

[Glenn E.]

I was just going to mention 20 year olds at restaurants but Andy beat me to it. I wouldn't trust the Ports, even at a very high end place, unless I see the bottle opened. Most of the time, the bottle has been sitting open for weeks or months. That may be the source of the medicinal taste you seem to be getting.

I'll add (since I mentioned it earlier) that if what you had was called a 20-yr old, it was probably a real Port. There are some California wineries who also use that terminology, but generally the wine you'll find in restaurants is from Portugal.

A 20-yr old Port is a pretty sturdy wine. If you open one at home, it can last for a couple of weeks on your countertop or easily a month in your refrigerator. But in a restaurant, it's probably on a shelf where it gets warm (and then cools off, and then gets warm... etc) and that ages it quickly. Unless the restaurant is taking very good care of its open bottles, and not just sitting them on the liquor shelf next to the vodka, whisky, and cognac, the bottle will probably only be good for at most a week.

That said, based on what you've told us I'd recommend trying an LBV. Older ones, if you can find them, will be a little smoother due to their age. Younger ones from 2005 or later will typically be bold and vibrant. If the bottle says "traditional" or "unfiltered" then there may be a little bit of sediment in the bottle which is perfectly normal. Just pour carefully or decant the bottle before drinking.

[Moses Botbol]

Solid VP's I would suggest (for 1983) are Grahams and Ramos Pinto

[Kelly J.]

Thanks for all your help and advice everyone

I decided to get two less-expensive bottles that had different styles of tasting notes so that we will hopefully like one of them: 1983 Ferreira and 1983 Warre. Also purchased him some port tongs. His birthday isn't until the end of the month, but I'll let you know how it goes!

Thanks again, guys!

Kelly

[Roy Hersh]

Kelly, sorry I was late to this thread. I hope you didn't buy the Port tongs at the aforementioned location. They are "ok" but not great. IF you can reverse that decision, I could help you obtain a pair very quickly ... and something that the "tool guy" would definitely appreciate.

Your Ferreira and Warre's will be excellent with six to eight hours in an open decanter.

Again, if you ARE able to reverse your purchase of tongs if they're from that website, I would be glad to help you, by email (roy@fortheloveofport.com).


Welcome to FTLOP and I hope you will have your fiancee drop in too and share with us his impressions of the Ports you bought him.

Best regards,

Roy