Recommendations sought by a Newbie

[Lee Matthews]

Greetings People,

I’ve been checking out this site for a while now, so first of all let me say thanks to all the creators and contributors. Not only very interesting and informative, but a great source of different opinions. A brief background: My main interest is Fine Wine, which I got into seriously around the turn of the century. I’m building a small collection of good-to-excellent wines for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas etc., the vast majority being Bordeaux from 2005 and 2009, with a few cherry-picked from 1982, 2000 and 2003. I still have a wants list for the incredibly expensive 2010, but am looking to expand into other areas. This has naturally led to my interest in Port. (I know Port is a wine, but you know what I mean). My little collection so far (somewhat influenced by Roy's reviews) consists of:

Fonseca 1963
Niepoort 2000
Quinta do Vesuvio 2003
Quinta do Noval 2007
Three-bottle pack of Quinta de Vargellas 2007
Dow 2007

I’m thinking of adding another half-dozen bottles over the next few years. Remember, I’m not looking at these for regular drinking, just very special occasions. What would be your suggestions? My current wants list consists of

Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Fonseca 2003
Taylor 2000

If you had to pick another six, what would you go for? I don’t have any particular price range in mind, but that would be a factor, so I suppose limit it to £150 per bottle max. I’m aware of the lack of 1977, 1970 and 1966 (was ’66 better than ’63?), so I guess I should be considering those years…I hit 50 in 2013, so it’s probably not worth thinking about future vintages from my perspective.

On a separate but related subject, I’m optimistically thinking about what I would like to uncork on my 100th birthday. This will probably change to ‘uncork on my deathbed’, but I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. Being born in 1963, it would be nice to be able to open up a bottle from that year, but unless I win the lottery and score some 1963 Quinta Do Noval Nacional, are there any possible contenders out there? I was considering holding onto the Fonseca, but I’ve noticed it’s developed a tiny leak, so expect to consume that in the next year or two. The only 1963 Port I’ve had so far was Taylor’s, which was superb. If this is pushing the boundary a bit too far, I might consider the 1994 Quinta Do Noval Nacional, which would certainly be at the extreme end of my budget…but I can think of a couple of bottles of wine that have cost me as much – and will be completely beyond my reach in a few years.

Finally, I know this should go in the Madeira forum, but I’ll try and sneak it in here. I have a bottle of Leacocks 1963, which I’m thinking of opening towards the end of the decade. First of all, what kind of a shelf life does this have? I get the impression a good Madeira is almost immortal. Secondly, I’ve seen references to it being very dry, but I’m wondering in what sense – this is still essentially a dessert wine, is that correct? I’m trying hard not to phrase this question in its most accurate but dumb-sounding form: What does it taste like? In other words, is it just a better version of any other Madeira I’ve tried?

Any thoughts appreciated – and thanks again for this great site!

Lee

[Eric Ifune]

Regarding the Leacocks, do you have a grape variety along with the vintage? If Sercial, it will be very dry. If Boal or Malvasia, it will be a dessert wine; Malvasia (or Malmsey) being the sweetest.
Regarding the Ports, I personally would opt for something like the 1977 Taylors, 1980 Dow, 1985 Fonseca.
Amongst the 1963's, my favorites are the Fonseca and Grahams.

[Lee Matthews]

Thanks Eric,

The Leacocks is a Sercial..I mainly bought it because it's from the year of my birth, 1963. I'm building a small collection of spirits from that year, and this seemed like an interesting addition. So (forgive me if I'm a bit dense here), is this not really to be regarded as a dessert wine per se?
If you were to drink this with a meal, where would it go in the sequence? Or should I regard this the same way as a spirit, i.e. to be consumed after a meal?

Not exactly important in the grand scheme of things, just curious!

Cheers,

Lee

[Roy Hersh]

Lee,

First of all welcome to FTLOP and thanks for posting your questions, we'll be more than happy to help you!

My suggestion of the three Ports would be to go with either two of each, or six of the Vesuvio 1994.

As to Sercial, as Eric mentioned it can be bone dry (think Fino Sherry if that helps) but can also have a drop of RS to provide a slightly sweeter entry and dry finish, or on some ... vice versa. It is technically a dessert wine as are most if not all fortifieds. However, given the dryness, you could definitely pair this with appetizers before the meal, dishes like fried chicken ... although that might be a bit pedestrian for most with Madeira, Pheasant, or after dinner with a cheese course or some desserts too. There are NO rules that apply to wines when it comes to pairings ... so enjoy whatever or however you'd like 'em. But it is not always easy to begin learning about Madeira with Sercial, compared to a Malvasia (Malmsey).

We hope you will continue to join us here.

[Lee Matthews]

Thanks Roy, I appreciate the advice, seems like there's always something new to learn in all walks all life, especially wine and spirits!

My suggestion of the three Ports would be to go with either two of each, or six of the Vesuvio 1994

Seriously, nothing from '66 or '70?
Point noted regarding the Vesuvio '94, though. Compared with the astronomical price of a good 2010 claret, port prices seem like a bargain.

On the morbid subject of a death-bed port I'm wondering if it might be worth getting another Fonseca '63, this time inspecting the seal a bit more closely. Would it have the legs to last a century? Then again, would I?

[Al B.]

I was also born in 1963 and have drunk a fair number of different ports from the 1963 vintage.

To my taste, the 1963 Noval Nacional is head and shoulders better than any other port from the vintage. If you're able to resist buying port for a year and then buy just one bottle, that would be a fantastic centenary bottle.

Second to the Nacional (to my taste) is the Fonseca. I love the '63 Fonseca. It will certainly still be drinking enjoyably when 100 years old, but I would anticipate less enjoyment than today. Behind these two bottles (and in no particular order of preference), I enjoy the Taylor, Sandeman, Graham, Warre, Cockburn, Croft and Dow.

Given your age, unless you like particularly young port, you have a lot of port that will require considerable patience before being at its peak. If you consider the old adage that says you lock your port up until it reaches the age of 21, it will be some time yet before you are opening and enjoying your Vargellas Vinha Velha 2007!

Since you're looking for special occasion port, it might be worth selling off some of the younger ports that you have and trading these for ports which drink well today, some of which will also improve over the next 20-30 years. My suggestions would be to trade out of anything from 2000 or later, and buy in:
Vesuvio 1994
Fonseca, Graham or Dow 1985
Taylor 1977
Fonseca or Graham 1970
Fonseca, Taylor or Dow 1966
Croft 1945 - expensive but an amazing port!

But whatever you do - have fun. Port is a fabulous wine - one that has seen me selling off some of my table wine stocks in order to buy more port!

[Eric Menchen]

I like the recommendations thus far. Another 1970 I've liked is Niepoort. Also, I wonder if 1992 or 1994 Taylor might be worth adding for later drinking.

[Lee Matthews]

Thanks guys.

Al - I'm certainly one for delayed gratification. No intention of selling any of the stuff I already have...these are keepers for my old age, like the majority of my wine collection.
As for the Nacional 1963, well, I sure would love to go for that, but the price is really out of my reach...but the 1994 might just about be possible.
I might seriously consider another bottle of Fonseca '63, though. Even if it's well past its best, there's something special about decanting something that's been around as long as you have. If I did get another Fonseca, I suspect it would be in better condition than me when I get round to opening it!

Interested in your 1966 suggestions, I'll take that on board....ditto with yours, Eric.

The Croft 1945 is certainly a possibility, not outrageously expensive.
Just for a laugh, I inquired at this site, which lists this at £450 a case!
http://www.lassemblage.co.uk/CROFT45B12 ... sc&page=51

Needless to say, the reply put me right...but worth a punt!

[Lars F]

Hi Lee

Thought I'd just chip in with a recommendation for the Tawnies, although you seem focused on VP's for the monemt. You may consider picking up some 20Y or 30Y tawnies or some older Colheitas. You mention that it's fun to drink something that's been around for a long time, and Colheitas is a good way to achieve that, at a reasonable price.

I've enjoyed Krohn from the sixties as well as several Burmester from the eighties which are really cheap here in Denmark.

-Lars

[Lee Matthews]

Thanks Lars, I'll check them out.
You're correct, I am focused on VPs...mainly because I regard this as an extension to my wine cellar.

Cheers,

Lee

[Derek T.]

Lee,

Welcome to FTLOP. Others have given you good advice that I cannot improve on.

It might surprise you to know that the Port career of many of us here started with a post very like yours. My prediction is that it is all downhill from here for your bank account and you will soon need off-site storage for your Port collection

Roy, isn't it about time we had a smilie showing a man at the top of a slippery slope carrying six bottles of Port with 100 wooden cases at the bottom to provide a hard landing?

Derek

[Phil W]

I’m thinking of adding another half-dozen bottles over the next few years. Remember, I’m not looking at these for regular drinking, just very special occasions. What would be your suggestions? My current wants list consists of

Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
Fonseca 2003
Taylor 2000

If you had to pick another six, what would you go for? I don’t have any particular price range in mind, but that would be a factor, so I suppose limit it to £150 per bottle max. I’m aware of the lack of 1977, 1970 and 1966 (was ’66 better than ’63?), so I guess I should be considering those years…I hit 50 in 2013, so it’s probably not worth thinking about future vintages from my perspective.

Hi Lee,

Personally I would rate 66 and 63 roughly equally, but would place 70 higher and believe it will also have more longevity. Given your current list, and that you're only looking at infrequent special occasion drinking, I would go for Grahams and/or Fonseca 70 (unless you especially want it to be from the year of your birth). This/these would be suitable for immediate drinking when needed, and perhaps some Vesuvio 94 as you've indicated this already, which I would wait at least 5-10yr before opening.

[Al B.]

Personally I would rate 66 and 63 roughly equally, but would place 70 higher and believe it will also have more longevity.

Oooh! Now there's a contentious statement! While I can't argue that your statement is inconsistent with the results of the recent tasting we did together where we compared 1963, 1966, 1970 and 1977 from Dow, Graham, Fonseca and Taylor I think that was a flawed tasting because of the number of poor bottles from '63 and '66.

Perhaps we need to organise another tasting when you are next in London when we can compare '66 and '70 from a couple of shippers?

[Rob C.]

Personally I would rate 66 and 63 roughly equally, but would place 70 higher and believe it will also have more longevity.

Oooh! Now there's a contentious statement! While I can't argue that your statement is inconsistent with the results of the recent tasting we did together where we compared 1963, 1966, 1970 and 1977 from Dow, Graham, Fonseca and Taylor I think that was a flawed tasting because of the number of poor bottles from '63 and '66.

Perhaps we need to organise another tasting when you are next in London when we can compare '66 and '70 from a couple of shippers?

Graham, Dow, Fonseca, Warre - I'd very happily drink 66 and 70 of any of those and argue which is best! I think 66 is perfect right now, but in 5/10 years...? Then again, Wolfgang swears that the '66s should be left alone in long term storage for another 15 years!

But 70 is also a phenomenon because of the sheer size of the vintage (and therefore, happily, current availability) and the number of different producers that made great VP....66s, by comparison, seem to be in short supply these days. 63s, come 2013, may be in even shorter supply. So that's one extra thing to factor into buying decisions when you are allocating your budget for this year (vs what you want to buy a couple of years down the track)...

[Eric Menchen]

Oooh! Now there's a contentious statement! While I can't argue that your statement is inconsistent with the results of the recent tasting we did together where we compared 1963, 1966, 1970 and 1977 from Dow, Graham, Fonseca and Taylor I think that was a flawed tasting because of the number of poor bottles from '63 and '66.

Flawed tasting, or indicative of what you will find today on the open market? A perfectly stored bottle of one of those 60s might be better than a perfectly store bottle of 1970, but this discussion is about what to go out an buy now, which to me implies perfect provenance may not always be known or available.

[Lee Matthews]

Thanks again for the input, guys.
I'll mull over the responses so far and add appropriately to my wants list!

Lee